Straggler wrote on 03/06/12 at 11:51:19:


I think it would be a 700 page book if Scherbakov had to deal with all d4 sidelines in the detail he already did with the Noteboom..

[quote author=07323F1936303B3A3D530 link=1330884762/3#3 date=1330942477]The London & Co is surely a fly in the ointment in anything with d7-d5.

I was thinking about using [b]1.d4 e6[/b] (inviting 2.e4 d5 and not closing the door on the Dutch) but after [b]2.Nf3 d5 3.Bf4[/b] can Black take advantage of not having played Nf6?

After a quick look in the database I came up with [b]3...Bd6 4.e3[/b] (or 4.Bg3 Ne7(-f5)) [b]4...Bxf4 5.exf4 Qd6 6.Qd2 Nf6[/b] which already looks kinda promising... And [b]3.c3 Bd6 4.Bg5 Ne7[/b] also looks congenial to me.[/quote]
It's an interesting idea for Black. You could also transpose into the line mentioned by Chessexplained:
1.d4 d5 2.Nf3 e6 3.Bf4 c5 4.e3 Nf6 5.c3 Nc6 6.Nbd2 Nh5

By the way, how would you respond to 1.d4 e6 2.Nf3 d5 [b]3.g3[/b] - would you head for a Dutch Stonewall? Or is 3...b5 an option?

My take on 1.d4 e6 has been to go for the Triangle [i]if and only if[/i] White plays 2.c4. If instead 2.Nf3, then forget the Triangle and play 2...Nf6. Now 3.c4 c5 is a Benoni where Black has avoided the dangerous f4 & Bb5+ line.

If White [i]doesn't[/i] play the London & Co there are other issues in the background, for example 1.d4 e6 is often met by 2.Nf3 because White wants to avoid extra ...Bb4+ options in the Dutch (or even as soon as move two) where 1.d4 2.Nf3 3.g3 4.Bg2 5.0-0 is the most economical move order for white, which however means that if White intends to meet the Triangle with the Marshall Gambit he could be move-ordered out of it after 3 ply! :))

1...c6 allows the bishop to get out, but it also allows the Slav Exchange which would put me off it. Not only because of its drawishness, but also since White, if so inclined, can probably play for a safe edge as well.

It's a shame that Scherbakov doesn't seem to deal with this problem in his new book on the Triangle, though since the book already runs to 450 pages he can hardly be faulted for that! I suppose the likelihood of a Colle or a London is not a major consideration at his level. Perhaps one should just play 2...Nf6 and if 3.c4 then 3...e6, when one has at least avoided the dreaded exchange variation? Irritating to have to learn the QGD as well as the Triangle stuff, though.

They can basically play their systems against any Noteboom move-order. A ...Qb6 from 2...c6 will probably be answered by Qc1 followed by their usual Torre/London/Trompowsky/etc. Colle players who play the b3 Colle probably will never have any problems since a ...Qb6 will always be answered by b3 and Bb2 anyway.

Most d-pawn special players just love to see ...d5 and ...e6, and at my level (1800) someone who plays 2.Nf3 is more likely to be planning 3.e3 or 3.Bf4 than 3.c4. Such a person isn't very likely to allow a Noteboom anyway, so you have more to lose than to gain by playing something that isn't ideal if White omits c4.

I made a post on this topic some years ago, but can't seem to find it with the search function.  The big drawback is that after 1.d4 d5 2.Nf3 you have to commit to either 2...c6 or 2...e6 if you want a Noteboom, so you can't play 2...Nf6 3.Bf4 c5, for instance.  Still, you can vary your move order depending on opponent.

I used to play 2...e6, and if 3.Bf4 Bd6 right away.  If White played 3.e3 with a Colle I'd head for a Stonewall setup.

If equality is what you're after, 2...c6 might be a better option, but after 3.Bf4 Bf5 it can get pretty dull, for instance.  I suppose you might try 3...Nf6 and hope for 4.e3 Bg4.  After 2...c6 3.e3 a Stonewall is still possible, so 2...c6 might be the best way to play; I'm not really sure as I haven't played the Noteboom in years.