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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) UEFA Champions League 2012 (Read 11202 times)
Willempie
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Re: UEFA Champions League 2012
Reply #25 - 05/21/12 at 15:17:52
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Mortal Games wrote on 05/21/12 at 14:28:41:
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Willempie - Defending and tactics may have evolved, but scoring isnt tougher.

In reality I agree that today it isnt tougher only in physical terms taking on account the fact that materials have evolved and it was tougher for the foot thats why in the old days, a player with a good drible but above all, with great kick like Pele or Eusebio were great players and players that make a diference, but tougher to score I disagree because in the old times we see a lot results like 6-3, 5-4, 4-4, etc, that were very common. After catenaccio and the evolution on materials, athletics and tactics by computer study, today we look at italian football and we have 1-0, 1-1 or 0-0. It is not for some reason that FIFA created a new ball, more lighter and with some effects to dificult the job of goalkeapers and to have more goals this way.   

Italian football has always had results like that. If a match there has/had more than 3 goals it must be either bribed, 3 men sent off or there were no italian players present. Wink

Still I see your point, though I dont entirely agree. If you take for example champions league finals, you dont see any major trend. I think one of the main differences in the WC is that the difference in playing strength is less.
  

If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
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Mortal Games
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Re: UEFA Champions League 2012
Reply #24 - 05/21/12 at 14:28:41
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Willempie - Defending and tactics may have evolved, but scoring isnt tougher.

In reality I agree that today it isnt tougher only in physical terms taking on account the fact that materials have evolved and it was tougher for the foot thats why in the old days, a player with a good drible but above all, with great kick like Pele or Eusebio were great players and players that make a diference, but tougher to score I disagree because in the old times we see a lot results like 6-3, 5-4, 4-4, etc, that were very common. After catenaccio and the evolution on materials, athletics and tactics by computer study, today we look at italian football and we have 1-0, 1-1 or 0-0. It is not for some reason that FIFA created a new ball, more lighter and with some effects to dificult the job of goalkeapers and to have more goals this way.
  

It has been said that chess players are good at two things, Chess and Excuses.  It has also been said that Chess is where all excuses fail! In order to win you must dare to fail!
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Re: UEFA Champions League 2012
Reply #23 - 05/21/12 at 13:27:31
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GMTonyKosten wrote on 05/21/12 at 11:53:02:


...I suppose Chelsea would have (perhaps deservedly?!) lost again. I read somewhere that Torres wanted to take a penalty but the manager refused! Probably he would have refused Terry, too, had he been playing. ...


In the singular instance of penalty kicks, Chelsea did deserve to win. After the game the manager of Bayern explained that Neuer took the third penalty after a long pause because nobody wanted to step up and take it! 

In order to win a championship, the players have to believe in themselves. Robben lacked the confidence to take the kick because he had already missed one in the extra time. While I think Robben should still have taken either the third or fourth penalty, the rest of the players had no such excuse.

I didn't know that Torres was refused an opportunity in the first five, but it's a wonderful problem to have as a manager that so many players wanted to step up and take the risk.

  
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Re: UEFA Champions League 2012
Reply #22 - 05/21/12 at 11:53:02
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Gilchrist is a legend wrote on 05/20/12 at 00:53:59:
What would have happened if Terry had to play the penalty at number 5?  Roll Eyes

I suppose Chelsea would have (perhaps deservedly?!) lost again. I read somewhere that Torres wanted to take a penalty but the manager refused! Probably he would have refused Terry, too, had he been playing.
There was another stupid article by 'Eurosport expert' Paul Parker entitled Chelsea cannot win on penalties (http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/blogs/paul-parker/chelsea-cannot-win-penalties-181...) just before the match! Roll Eyes
  
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MNb
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Re: UEFA Champions League 2012
Reply #21 - 05/21/12 at 10:00:37
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Cruyff is. And that has everything to do with him being Dutch.
  

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Willempie
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Re: UEFA Champions League 2012
Reply #20 - 05/21/12 at 09:22:30
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Mortal Games wrote on 05/21/12 at 08:44:43:

You are right about the heavy leather ball and shoes but in those times football was in slow motion too and defenders could be like Vince Jones but were like girlscouts without agressive play. Any footage of those times makes anyone laughing about the ingenuity of defenders or the way they score goals. On the other hand, if Pele was playing today no doubt he will be a good player but far away from the best, because it is much more dificult for a forward to score then in those times. Today football is much more physical and the tactics had a big evolution, thats why it is not very apropriate to compare diferent times.      

I disagree here. Defending and tactics may have evolved, but scoring isnt tougher. For starters it is much easier to place a freekick due to the ball. If you would try a freekick curling into the upper corner with those things you would either break your foot or the ball would land after 5 yards. Same goes for shots and passes. Pace was indeed much slower and defenders more "stupid" to compensate. 
Still Pele isnt the best player ever imo.
  

If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
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Re: UEFA Champions League 2012
Reply #19 - 05/21/12 at 08:44:43
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Pele said the same of Romario.

Pele had promoted himself very well along the years joining FIFA burocrats, but Maradona is best. The only problem is that he is a rebel.   

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I wanna see him try it, with a very heavy leather ball, the same shoes and defenders that make Vince Jones look like a girlscout.


You are right about the heavy leather ball and shoes but in those times football was in slow motion too and defenders could be like Vince Jones but were like girlscouts without agressive play. Any footage of those times makes anyone laughing about the ingenuity of defenders or the way they score goals. On the other hand, if Pele was playing today no doubt he will be a good player but far away from the best, because it is much more dificult for a forward to score then in those times. Today football is much more physical and the tactics had a big evolution, thats why it is not very apropriate to compare diferent times.
  

It has been said that chess players are good at two things, Chess and Excuses.  It has also been said that Chess is where all excuses fail! In order to win you must dare to fail!
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Willempie
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Re: UEFA Champions League 2012
Reply #18 - 05/21/12 at 07:12:11
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Mortal Games wrote on 05/19/12 at 22:44:15:
Wow, He is a very humble guy. I only give him the benefit of a doubt, because I know the rivalry between brasilians and argentinians, but if Messi was playing in those times of slowmotion football and easy defenders, he will score 3,000 goals.

I wanna see him try it, with a very heavy leather ball, the same shoes and defenders that make Vince Jones look like a girlscout.
  

If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
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MNb
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Re: UEFA Champions League 2012
Reply #17 - 05/20/12 at 20:21:16
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Mortal Games wrote on 05/19/12 at 22:44:15:
because I know the rivalry between brasilians and argentinians,

Pele said the same of Romario.
  

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Gilchrist is a legend
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Re: UEFA Champions League 2012
Reply #16 - 05/20/12 at 00:53:59
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What would have happened if Terry had to play the penalty at number 5?  Roll Eyes
  

Creo lo que creo no importa lo que creen los demás.
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Mortal Games
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Re: UEFA Champions League 2012
Reply #15 - 05/19/12 at 22:44:15
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When asked about Messi recently, Pele responded:
"When Messi's scored 1,283 goals like me, when he's won three World Cups, we'll talk about it."

Wow, He is a very humble guy. I only give him the benefit of a doubt, because I know the rivalry between brasilians and argentinians, but if Messi was playing in those times of slowmotion football and easy defenders, he will score 3,000 goals. Even today, brasilian football have nothing to compare to Europe. As for World Cups it´s a tournament of one week but much more important is the Champions League because a team needs to work all season and there we see the real work of coaches and automatic movements of all team. One year work of national championships and Champions League represent much more than one weak event for me.
http://sports.yahoo.com/soccer/news?slug=ycn-11071584
I never heard of this guy too! New Jersey State Youth Soccer??  Roll Eyes 

Maradona and Messi are the best. Argentinian player as natural talent that I never saw anywhere. If someone has doubts about Messi, just put the tv in slowmotion and look at what he does with his foot.
  

It has been said that chess players are good at two things, Chess and Excuses.  It has also been said that Chess is where all excuses fail! In order to win you must dare to fail!
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Re: UEFA Champions League 2012
Reply #14 - 05/19/12 at 22:19:10
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The commentators here pointed out that in CLUB events, England has never lost a penalty shoot out to a German team!  Shocked

But yes, it would be nice if England could call on someone like Drogba in the clutch.
  
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Re: UEFA Champions League 2012
Reply #13 - 05/19/12 at 22:10:12
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Gilchrist is a legend wrote on 05/19/12 at 21:16:41:
Penalties!! Who do you think will win?

Very strange! In England it is a known fact that German teams always beat English teams on penalties.
I can only guess that the fact that the Chelsea goalie is Czech and that only two of the penalty takers were English made all the difference.
  
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Re: UEFA Champions League 2012
Reply #12 - 05/19/12 at 21:16:41
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Penalties!! Who do you think will win?
  

Creo lo que creo no importa lo que creen los demás.
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Re: UEFA Champions League 2012
Reply #11 - 04/26/12 at 17:10:03
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Gerd Müller and Romario belong to my favourites. They all in all only play 10 minutes a match but score two or three times in those few minutes.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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