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Normal Topic C27: Vienna/Bishops Opening for Black (Read 6840 times)
ArKheiN
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Re: Vienna/Bishops Opening for Black
Reply #9 - 03/20/12 at 20:39:54
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The move I hate the most to face when I played the Vienna is 3..Bb4, I have not found any real weakness for Black here. 4.f4 is a reversed Schliemann but I think it's worse than the real Schliemann, 4.d3, Black can play with a quick d5, with c6 or with Nc6 (transposition then), 4.Nge2 there is Nxe4, there is also 4.a3!? or 4.Nf3 (maybe the best objectively, but it's clear White has 0 advantage.). But of course, there is many ways for Black to have an equal game in the Vienna, and the line for Black is a question of style.
  
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Chessexplained
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Re: Vienna/Bishops Opening for Black
Reply #8 - 03/20/12 at 19:08:55
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Sure, Bb4 is also fine. It's just that my planned repertoire has lot's of Bc5 setups (Italian, Classical vs. Ruy), so this Bc5 approach fits in nicely.
  
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Markovich
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Re: Vienna/Bishops Opening for Black
Reply #7 - 03/20/12 at 18:25:14
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MNb wrote on 03/20/12 at 16:47:33:
4...Bb4 certainly is as good, but Black needs to know a bit of theory: 5.Bg5 h6 6.Bxf6 Bxc3+! (Qxf6 7.Nge2 gives White some prospects for an edge) 7.bxc3 Qxf6 8.Ne2 d6 9.O-O g5 (to prevent 10.f4) 10.d4 h5 11.f3 h4.


True, but once you know it, it's hard to forget.  I always rather liked this line for Black.

MNb wrote on 03/20/12 at 16:47:33:
Larsen has played 5.Nf3 and sometimes with success.


Yeah, but it's no big deal.

  

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MNb
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Re: Vienna/Bishops Opening for Black
Reply #6 - 03/20/12 at 16:47:33
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4...Bb4 certainly is as good, but Black needs to know a bit of theory: 5.Bg5 h6 6.Bxf6 Bxc3+! (Qxf6 7.Nge2 gives White some prospects for an edge) 7.bxc3 Qxf6 8.Ne2 d6 9.O-O g5 (to prevent 10.f4) 10.d4 h5 11.f3 h4.
Larsen has played 5.Nf3 and sometimes with success.
  

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MarkG
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Re: Vienna/Bishops Opening for Black
Reply #5 - 03/20/12 at 16:40:18
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Markovich wrote on 03/20/12 at 15:58:14:
I'm sorry to post not quite on topic, but what's the problem with 4...Bb4, a move I have always considered to be perfectly adequate?


+1

A few years ago I switched to meeting 1.e4 Nf6 2.Nc3 with 2...e5! When I looked at the Vienna, I was initially intending to adopt the 4...Na5 line because the source(s) available to me recommended it. However, when I actually looked at the position on a board, my hand just reached out for 4...Bb4. I like to think that the little bit of chess culture I have acquired over the years was showing itself there. The move is just so natural, well-established and, well, just plain good.
  
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Markovich
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Re: Vienna/Bishops Opening for Black
Reply #4 - 03/20/12 at 15:58:14
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Chessexplained wrote on 03/20/12 at 08:42:28:
I am currently working on a video series about 1.e4 e5 for Black. One line to address is: 1.e4 e5 2.Nc3 Nf6 3.Bc4. My initial plan was to go for 3...Nc6 4.d3 Na5


I'm sorry to post not quite on topic, but what's the problem with 4...Bb4, a move I have always considered to be perfectly adequate?
  

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Willempie
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Re: Vienna/Bishops Opening for Black
Reply #3 - 03/20/12 at 14:55:07
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Watch out for 5.Qf3 though, as it may "force" you into a Philidor structure (after a subsequent Bg5 you may have to drop the bishop back).
  

If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
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Chessexplained
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Re: Vienna/Bishops Opening for Black
Reply #2 - 03/20/12 at 11:10:44
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While I am not 100% sure that castling is so bad, you are certainly right that 4...c6 is just more exact. Thanks for pointing that out! This whole line seems like a very viable option to me.
  
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Re: Vienna/Bishops Opening for Black
Reply #1 - 03/20/12 at 09:52:46
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Chessexplained wrote on 03/20/12 at 08:42:28:
Was this ever discussed here?

Yes. It's good for Black. However I opine that 4...O-O is imprecise because of 5.Nf3/5.Bg5. Compare the Italian 4.d3 d6 5.Nc3 Nf6 where Black is ill-advised to castle.
If Black wants to play that 6...c6 idea the precise move order is 1.e4 e5 2.Nc3 Nf6 3.Bc4 Bc5 4.d3 c6 5.f4?! exf4 6.Bxf4 O-O or even ...d5 at once. Again 5.Nf3 and 5.Bg5 are possible, but Black should be OK after 5...d6.
  

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Chessexplained
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C27: Vienna/Bishops Opening for Black
03/20/12 at 08:42:28
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I am currently working on a video series about 1.e4 e5 for Black. One line to address is: 1.e4 e5 2.Nc3 Nf6 3.Bc4. My initial plan was to go for 3...Nc6 4.d3 Na5, but to be honest I find this much easier to play for white. Black might be ok, but from a practical point of view I don't like it much.
While checking othe ideas I came across a line mentioned in "Dangerous Weapons 1.e4 e5", namely 3...Bc5 4.d3 0-0 5.f4 exf4 6.Bxf4 c6(!). John Emms wrote this section btw. Was this ever discussed here? I didn't find anything via Board Search. I thought this might be an interesting try for black. Any thoughts on this?
« Last Edit: 07/28/12 at 06:06:17 by Smyslov_Fan »  
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