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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) C23: Calabrese Counter-Gambit: 1 e4 e5 2 Bc4 f5!? (Read 46790 times)
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Re: C23: Calabrese Counter-Gambit: 1 e4 e5 2 Bc4 f5!?
Reply #24 - 04/02/12 at 18:02:54
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Really funny stuff - 3.d3 b5!??
  

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Re: C23: Calabrese Counter-Gambit: 1 e4 e5 2 Bc4 f5!?
Reply #23 - 04/02/12 at 16:12:30
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Houdini thinks 5.a3!? (In the variation 1.e4 e5 2.Bc4 f5 3.d3 Nf6 4.Nc3 Nc6.) is good for White.  Although I'd guess black would be OK with careful play it's certainly a practical choice for White.
  
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Re: C23: Calabrese Counter-Gambit: 1 e4 e5 2 Bc4 f5!?
Reply #22 - 04/02/12 at 08:23:13
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TalJechin wrote on 04/02/12 at 07:37:36:
3.d4 exd4 4.e5 might be a little something for white, or maybe it's just White's higher rating that speaks..


Yes, White certainly has compensation in this reversed Falkbeer, but I'm not sure he's better.

In the game either 10...Be4!? or just 7...c4(!) 8 Ba4 d3 (e.g. 9 b3 a6 or 9 0-0 Nge7 10 b3 a6) seems okay for Black.
  

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TalJechin
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Re: C23: Calabrese Counter-Gambit: 1 e4 e5 2 Bc4 f5!?
Reply #21 - 04/02/12 at 07:37:36
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3.d4 exd4 4.e5 might be a little something for white, or maybe it's just White's higher rating that speaks..

  
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Re: C23: Calabrese Counter-Gambit: 1 e4 e5 2 Bc4 f5!?
Reply #20 - 04/01/12 at 18:04:36
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TalJechin wrote on 04/01/12 at 13:28:14:
Well, 3.Nc3 offers some extra options, e.g. a Tarrasch Counter Gambit with an extra tempo seems like a fun way to play!


Yes, but (3 Nc3 Nf6 4 exf5) 4...d5 is a mistake. Black should play 4...Nc6 again, transposing to the Deferred variation 2 Nc3 Nc6 3 Bc4 f5 4 exf5 Nf6.

Then 5 d4!? is an interesting try, but it seems that Black can defend; e.g.

  

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Re: C23: Calabrese Counter-Gambit: 1 e4 e5 2 Bc4 f5!?
Reply #19 - 04/01/12 at 17:28:17
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Just in case: TalJechin refers to 1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Bc4 Nc6 4.Nf3 Bc5 5.d4 Nxd4!? with I met once in a rapid game and was all too happy to draw.
  

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Re: C23: Calabrese Counter-Gambit: 1 e4 e5 2 Bc4 f5!?
Reply #18 - 04/01/12 at 13:28:14
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Well, 3.Nc3 offers some extra options, e.g. a Tarrasch Counter Gambit with an extra tempo seems like a fun way to play! (just took a quick dip in the database, I'll leave the serious analysis to you)

  
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Re: C23: Calabrese Counter-Gambit: 1 e4 e5 2 Bc4 f5!?
Reply #17 - 04/01/12 at 11:24:07
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TalJechin wrote on 04/01/12 at 08:06:09:
Perhaps 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.d3 Bb4 5.Ne2 then?

In a KG white's extra tempo (Nc3) would allow N-QR4 now.


After 3 d3 Nf6 4 Nc3 (which of course is the same thing) I'd prefer 4...Nc6 (rather than 4...Bb4). Then 5 Nge2 could be answered by 5...Na5 (as in the reversed KG), or if 5 Nf3 only then 5...Bb4.

This also arises via 1 e4 e5 2 Nc3 Nc6 3 Bc4 f5!? (which might be called the Calabrese Counter-Gambit Deferred) 4 d3 Nf6 etc.
  

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Re: C23: Calabrese Counter-Gambit: 1 e4 e5 2 Bc4 f5!?
Reply #16 - 04/01/12 at 08:06:09
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Perhaps 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.d3 Bb4 5.Ne2 then?

In a KG white's extra tempo (Nc3) would allow N-QR4 now.
  
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Re: C23: Calabrese Counter-Gambit: 1 e4 e5 2 Bc4 f5!?
Reply #15 - 04/01/12 at 07:34:17
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Glenn Snow wrote on 04/01/12 at 03:20:29:
Isn't 1.e4 e5 2.Bc4 f5 3.d3 Nf6 4.Nf3 plus over equals?

BPaulsen wrote on 04/01/12 at 03:27:52:
I think I'd rather play white after 1.e4 e5 2.Bc4 f5 3.d3 Nf6 4.Nf3 Nc6 5.0-0 Bc5 6.Nc3 d6 7.Bg5. Is black aiming for something more incisive earlier in that duffer sequence of obvious moves?


Yes, those moves are too obvious. Black can't allow Nc3 coupled with Bg5. Instead: 4...fxe4 5 dxe4 Bb4+!? 6 c3 Bc5 intending ...d6, ...Qe7, ...Be6 and/or ...Nc6-d8 etc. I've found it's surprisingly difficult for White to achieve anything here.

One game:

  

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Re: C23: Calabrese Counter-Gambit: 1 e4 e5 2 Bc4 f5!?
Reply #14 - 04/01/12 at 03:27:52
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I think I'd rather play white after 1.e4 e5 2.Bc4 f5 3.d3 Nf6 4.Nf3 Nc6 5.0-0 Bc5 6.Nc3 d6 7.Bg5. Is black aiming for something more incisive earlier in that duffer sequence of obvious moves?
  

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Re: C23: Calabrese Counter-Gambit: 1 e4 e5 2 Bc4 f5!?
Reply #13 - 04/01/12 at 03:20:29
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Isn't 1.e4 e5 2.Bc4 f5 3.d3 Nf6 4.Nf3 plus over equals?
  
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Re: C23: Calabrese Counter-Gambit: 1 e4 e5 2 Bc4 f5!?
Reply #12 - 03/31/12 at 09:36:42
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Okay, a few replies:

SWJediknight wrote on 03/29/12 at 13:09:23:
Therefore most critical are probably 3.d3 (initiating a reversed King's Gambit Declined) and 3.Nc3, when White should get a nice edge, though nothing decisive.

I'm looking for something more concrete than one move suggestions. I'd answer these two moves: 3 d3 Nf6 and 3 Nc3 Nf6 (or 3...Nc6!?).

Gambit wrote on 03/29/12 at 17:22:38:
After 1 e4 e5 2 Bc4 f5 3 d4 d6 4 Nf3 b5 transposes to the Philidor Counter-Gambit: Newark Gambit.

3 d4 is better met by 3...exd4, when 4 e5!? d5 followed by ...c5 is a strange sort of reversed Falkbeer. I think Black is okay here.

Bresando wrote on 03/29/12 at 13:09:41:
In case you don't know, you can find some analysis at goeller's "Urusov gambit system" website. I think he advocated 3.f4 as a way to create a sharp simmetry which should be in principle favourable to white.

3 f4 is met by 3...exf4!, transposing to the Bishop's Gambit with 3...f5!? which is not at all bad for Black.

MNb wrote on 03/30/12 at 03:17:07:
Modification: 3.d3 spoils all Black's fun

How does it do that exactly? As you suggest lower down, 3 d3 Nf6 4.f4 (this stems from Jaenisch I think, rather than Staunton) 4...Nc6 is not so bad for Black either.

Next? Smiley
  

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Re: C23: Calabrese Counter-Gambit: 1 e4 e5 2 Bc4 f5!?
Reply #11 - 03/31/12 at 06:47:33
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Gambit wrote on 03/30/12 at 22:19:20:
No, 3 d3 is a bad move, and rates a ?.


1...e5 is a bad move because it weakens the d5 and f5 squares, and makes the f7-pawn even more vulnerable. The best square for Black's queen is d8 so it makes no sense to create the possibility of moving it. Moving the f8-bishop isn't much better since any move along the f8-a3 diagonal will leave the g7-pawn protected. This is why the only move that scores well at the top level against 1.e4 is 1...c5.
  

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Re: C23: Calabrese Counter-Gambit: 1 e4 e5 2 Bc4 f5!?
Reply #10 - 03/30/12 at 22:19:20
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No, 3 d3 is a bad move, and rates a ?.
  
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