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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) C23: Calabrese Counter-Gambit: 1 e4 e5 2 Bc4 f5!? (Read 46784 times)
Jonathan Tait
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Re: C23: Calabrese Counter-Gambit: 1 e4 e5 2 Bc4 f5!?
Reply #39 - 04/07/12 at 20:09:11
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CraigEvans wrote on 04/07/12 at 17:58:40:
Well, for a start I'd be thinking that 5.d4 makes much more sense than 5.Nd5.

5...exd4 must be the move (since I can see no sensible way for black to maintain the central tension). Then 6.Nxd4 fxe4 (what else) is quite strongly met by 7.Bg5!? again striving for activity and preventing ...d5.


Yes, that looks quite interesting. I tried 7...c6 but then 8 Nf5 d5 9 Nxg7+ Kf7 10 Nh5 seems a bit dodgy for Black; e.g. 10...Bg4 11 Be2 Bxe2 12 Qxe2 Nbd7 13 0-0 Qb6 14 Kh1 Rag8 15 Nxf6 Nxf6 16 Bxf6 Qxf6 17 f3 e3 18 Na4 Qa5 19 Qxe3 Qxa4 20 c3.

While I'm not ready to give up on that just yet, perhaps 3...Nf6 is inaccurate and Black should play 3...Nc6 instead, when 4 d3 Nf6 transposes to lines we've already discussed (albeit briefly), while 4 exf5 Nf6 5 Nf3 d5 6 Bb5 Bd6 7 d4 exd4 8 Nxd4 0-0 is okay for Black.
  

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CraigEvans
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Re: C23: Calabrese Counter-Gambit: 1 e4 e5 2 Bc4 f5!?
Reply #38 - 04/07/12 at 17:58:40
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Well, for a start I'd be thinking that 5.d4 makes much more sense than 5.Nd5. Why cede the centre and exchange pieces? White is ahead in development, black has marginally weakened his kingside and wont be able to castle for a little while - I don't believe in just playing passively against this sort of stuff.

So, after 5.d4 it would appear that we are in Terra Incognita - can anyone chart a route for black here? Though as I'm away from home I don't have my trusty engines to back me up, I'm fairly confident white must have some edge here. The sort of thing I'd be looking at is 5...fxe4 6.dxe5! exf3 7.exf6 Qxf6 8.O-O! and looking to plant something down the e-file before black gets close to castling. 8...Bxc3 seems forced, but after 9.bxc3 white has an open position and two bishops and a lead in development for his dodgy pawn structure.

So 5...exd4 must be the move (since I can see no sensible way for black to maintain the central tension). Then 6.Nxd4 fxe4 (what else) is quite strongly met by 7.Bg5!? again striving for activity and preventing ...d5. I can't believe that this is what black wants? White is the one having all the fun here...

  

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Re: C23: Calabrese Counter-Gambit: 1 e4 e5 2 Bc4 f5!?
Reply #37 - 04/03/12 at 22:43:46
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CraigEvans wrote on 04/03/12 at 17:53:30:
What would black play after 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.Nf3?


4...Bb4.

The only example here being:

  

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Re: C23: Calabrese Counter-Gambit: 1 e4 e5 2 Bc4 f5!?
Reply #36 - 04/03/12 at 17:53:30
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What would black play after 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.Nf3?

4...fxe4 5.Nxe5 d5 6.Nxd5! and black doesn't get his Svedenborg fun - 6...Nxd5 7.Qh5+ g6 8.Nxg6 hg 9.Qxh8 Nb4 10.O-O and I don't believe white can be bad here, though maybe black has just enough?

So, does black have an improvement on this? Or am I totally mis-assessing the position?
  

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Re: C23: Calabrese Counter-Gambit: 1 e4 e5 2 Bc4 f5!?
Reply #35 - 04/03/12 at 17:07:47
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The problem with 3.Bc4 is not 3...d6?! as suggested at Michael Goeller's site, as after 4.Nf3 this transposes to the Philidor Counter-Gambit (1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 f5 4.Bc4) which is much better for White.
As mentioned earlier in the thread the problem is the Svedenborg Variation (3.fxe4 4.Nxe5 d5), when after 5.Qh5+ g6 6.Nxg6 hxg6 Black gets very dangerous compensation for the exchange after 7.Qxh8 Kf7 and stands OK after 7.Qxg6+ Kd7.  White might have a small theoretical edge in that 7.Qxh8 line with accurate defence but I would much rather be Black in that line (hence 3.Nxe5! being the way to go against the Latvian).
  
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Re: C23: Calabrese Counter-Gambit: 1 e4 e5 2 Bc4 f5!?
Reply #34 - 04/03/12 at 16:58:31
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Pardon my ignorance, but isn't 3.Bc4 still supposed to be quite strong against the Latvian?  If so, then this issue is moot.
  

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Re: C23: Calabrese Counter-Gambit: 1 e4 e5 2 Bc4 f5!?
Reply #33 - 04/03/12 at 16:46:05
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All this validates what I said earlier about getting rid of the pesky Bc4 by a later ...d6, ...Qe7, ...Be6. These games here prove that. And certainly Black can castle Queenside.
  
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Re: C23: Calabrese Counter-Gambit: 1 e4 e5 2 Bc4 f5!?
Reply #32 - 04/03/12 at 16:02:52
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Markovich wrote on 04/03/12 at 15:38:20:
On second thought, 3.d4 exd4 4.e5 d5! 5.exd6 Bxd6 and the check from e7 will be annoying.


There's one game with that:

  

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Re: C23: Calabrese Counter-Gambit: 1 e4 e5 2 Bc4 f5!?
Reply #31 - 04/03/12 at 15:38:20
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On second thought, 3.d4 exd4 4.e5 d5! 5.exd6 Bxd6 and the check from e7 will be annoying.
  

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Re: C23: Calabrese Counter-Gambit: 1 e4 e5 2 Bc4 f5!?
Reply #30 - 04/03/12 at 15:12:26
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3.Bxg8 is a completely unprincipled move, so I would never look for White's advantage in that direction.

I think I would look first at the reversed Falkbeer with B-QB4 thrown in. That's not just any extra move, it's White's QB sitting on the just-exposed diagonal.  I suppose 3.d3 must be good, but it doesn't look like a sufficiently sharp reaction to Black's bad move.

It's a very cute idea for Latvian players, though.
  

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Re: C23: Calabrese Counter-Gambit: 1 e4 e5 2 Bc4 f5!?
Reply #29 - 04/03/12 at 13:17:48
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TN wrote on 04/03/12 at 09:03:12:
Thank you very much for your analysis Jon. You've nearly convinced me to play 2...f5 the next time someone plays 2.Bc4 against me!  Cheesy

SWJediknight wrote on 04/03/12 at 11:21:50:
I find Jon's analysis quite convincing, in the sense that while 2...f5 may not equalise with as much certainty as 2...Nf6 it seems that Black always gets a playable position with some counterplay.


It's good for psychological value at least. Smiley

Here's a bit more analysis:

  

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Re: C23: Calabrese Counter-Gambit: 1 e4 e5 2 Bc4 f5!?
Reply #28 - 04/03/12 at 11:21:50
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1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 f5 4.d4! is indeed the problem with the Rousseau Gambit (we've already seen that 1.e4 e5 2.Bc4 f5 3.d4 exd4 isn't anywhere near as convincing for White).
I find Jon's analysis quite convincing, in the sense that while 2...f5 may not equalise with as much certainty as 2...Nf6 it seems that Black always gets a playable position with some counterplay.
  
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Re: C23: Calabrese Counter-Gambit: 1 e4 e5 2 Bc4 f5!?
Reply #27 - 04/03/12 at 10:18:34
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Here's one more game with a3 :)

[pgn][Event "POL-chT"]
[Site "Lubniewice"]
[Date "1993.??.??"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Sikora Gizynska, Bozena"]
[Black "Wiliczkiewicz, Zdzislawa"]
[Result "0-1"]
[ECO "C23"]
[WhiteElo "2185"]
[BlackElo "2015"]
[PlyCount "62"]
[EventDate "1993.??.??"]
[EventType "team"]
[EventRounds "11"]
[EventCountry "POL"]
[Source ""]

1. e4 e5 2. Bc4 f5 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. d3 Nc6 5. a3 Bc5 6. Nf3 h6 7. O-O d6 8. b4 Bb6
9. Nd5 Nxd5 10. Bxd5 Qf6 11. h3 f4 12. c3 g5 13. a4 a6 14. d4 g4 15. dxe5 dxe5
16. hxg4 Bxg4 17. Qd3 h5 18. Bb2 h4 19. Nh2 Bd7 20. Rfb1 Rh7 21. b5 axb5 22.
axb5 Rxa1 23. Rxa1 Nd8 24. Qf3 Qg5 25. c4 h3 26. Rc1 Bc5 27. b6 cxb6 28. Kf1
hxg2+ 29. Kg1 Qh4 30. Qxg2 Bxf2+ 31. Kf1 Bh3 0-1

[/pgn]

It's a pity 2.Bc4 isn't more common. :)

And of course it would be nice if f5 worked against 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 too... Btw, what's the big difference there, is it 4.d4! or something else?
  
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TN
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Re: C23: Calabrese Counter-Gambit: 1 e4 e5 2 Bc4 f5!?
Reply #26 - 04/03/12 at 09:03:12
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Thank you very much for your analysis Jon. You've nearly convinced me to play 2...f5 the next time someone plays 2.Bc4 against me!  Cheesy
  

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Jonathan Tait
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Re: C23: Calabrese Counter-Gambit: 1 e4 e5 2 Bc4 f5!?
Reply #25 - 04/03/12 at 06:55:30
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Glenn Snow wrote on 04/02/12 at 16:12:30:
Houdini thinks 5.a3!? (In the variation 1.e4 e5 2.Bc4 f5 3.d3 Nf6 4.Nc3 Nc6.) is good for White.  Although I'd guess black would be OK with careful play it's certainly a practical choice for White.


Ah yes, 5 a3 is interesting. Now we do have a reversed KGD with the useful extra move a2-a3, preventing both ...Bb4 and negating ...Na5. The question is whether the KGD is good for an advantage even with an extra move. The only game I have with this is...

  

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