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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Caro-Kann, best attack for White? (Read 14420 times)
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Re: Caro-Kann, best attack for White?
Reply #12 - 02/13/26 at 19:55:31
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I mostly play it as black. I think if white wants a win and is a strong player, going for the advanced with Be2 is the most challenging (short's variation).
  

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Re: Caro-Kann, best attack for White?
Reply #11 - 04/03/12 at 07:38:19
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The answer to this depends on the level of the player, in my humble opinion.

Below 2000 it's not even close in my opinion. 1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 dxe4 4.Nxe4 Bf5 (4...Nd7 5.Ng3 is an annoyance I can never get quite happy with the black cause in, while white plays very naturally) 5.Ng3 Bg6 6.Bc4.

A very distant second is 1.e4 c6 2.Nf3 d5 3.Nc3 Bg4 4.h3 Bxf3 5.Qxf3 Nf6 6.d4 dxe4 7.Qe3. White gets more space, the bishop pair, and low rated players will find it quite easy to hang the black king, or ill-time an opening of the queenside that lets the bishop pair come alive.

There is something to be said for the Panov-Botvinnik Attack, but some lines (ie: 5...Nc6) don't see white really get an attacking build-up.

Above 2000 it gets trickier by what you're referring to as an attack. Shirov's version of the Advance (Nc3+g4) doesn't really get an "attack" in the 6...f6 version. A lot of space, but whether black is worse there is an open question.

The 4.h4 Advance is similar in some ways. Sometimes you get an attack, sometimes you'll just end up playing to strangle black. Definitely a good weapon above 2000 due to the relative lack of preparation black players give it compared to the alternatives.

Short's System has been the most challenging theoretically, but 5...Ne7 6.0-0 c5 has been putting the question to white of late. It certainly isn't an attacking line.

The Classical System produces thematic attacking positions, same with the Panov-Botvinnik Attack.

It drops off from there. Fantasy is probably third place at that point, but 3...e6 doesn't really scream, "I'm going to mate you" if black knows where to put his knights (hint: not in the path of white's pawns).

There is a reason the Caro-Kann is considered the most "solid" of non 1...e5 defenses. It does really well at resisting assault, usually caving under space problems instead these days at upper levels.
  

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Re: Caro-Kann, best attack for White?
Reply #10 - 04/02/12 at 15:17:08
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Andrew McKechnie wrote on 03/31/12 at 06:57:57:
I don't play the CK as Black and when I am faced with it, I only know the Main Line, which I am comfortable getting draws with. But I can't remember ever having a win with it (I guess that is the point of the CK).

I'd like to hear people's views about preferences for the exchange (and Panov) or advance variation. For example, if you play as White, which one do think provides more attacking chances. And if you play as Black, which one do you find more difficult to play against.  Or, am I best sticking with the solid Main Line that I know.


The Fantasy (3.f3!?) is an old favourite of mine, and nowadays it seems to finally have got some exposure in top level play too. Jonny Hector has had some very fine games with it for the last year or so.

Against opponents below 2000 you'll frequently get to play a mix of a KG and Scotch: 3.f3 dxe4 4.fxe4 e5 5.Nf3 exd4?! 6.Bc4!
  
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TN
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Re: Caro-Kann, best attack for White?
Reply #9 - 04/02/12 at 11:07:01
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MartinC wrote on 04/02/12 at 09:28:44:
I'd be utterly terrified playing it with either side - the positions are just terrifyingly random and massively demanding for both sides.

There are a lot of rather saner ways to play the advance, which are still dangerous enough for black. Seemingly approaching supplanting 3 Nc3 as the main line?


I agree that 3.e5 is theoretically more critical than 3.Nc3 nowadays, though the assessment of the Short System seems to change every month. I really like the Panov-Botvinnik from a practical perspective but concede that Black equalises with best play.
  

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Re: Caro-Kann, best attack for White?
Reply #8 - 04/02/12 at 09:28:44
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I'd be utterly terrified playing it with either side - the positions are just terrifyingly random and massively demanding for both sides.

There are a lot of rather saner ways to play the advance, which are still dangerous enough for black. Seemingly approaching supplanting 3 Nc3 as the main line?
  
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Re: Caro-Kann, best attack for White?
Reply #7 - 04/02/12 at 03:12:22
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I found it the opposite. When I played 1. e4, I used to play this line; I just pushed my pieces and pawns as far as possible and then if the attack failed then I basically lost due to the kingside weaknesses.
  

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TN
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Re: Caro-Kann, best attack for White?
Reply #6 - 04/02/12 at 02:22:08
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whatteaux wrote on 04/02/12 at 00:46:59:
In GM Rep 7, Schandorff seems to consider what he calls the Shirov Variation to be one of White's most dangerous. That's the 1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.e5 Bf5 4.Nc3 e6 5.g4 Bg6 6.Nge2 (etc) line. He says "The extremely sharp Shirov Variation is by far the wildest and most complex answer to the Caro." and "Black must study and learn all the lines in this chapter. Having a rough idea of what to do is just enough knowledge to get yourself mated."

I've found this line to be much more comfortable to play as White than as Black.


4...a6 could be a frustrating reply.  Wink
  

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Re: Caro-Kann, best attack for White?
Reply #5 - 04/02/12 at 00:46:59
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In GM Rep 7, Schandorff seems to consider what he calls the Shirov Variation to be one of White's most dangerous. That's the 1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.e5 Bf5 4.Nc3 e6 5.g4 Bg6 6.Nge2 (etc) line. He says "The extremely sharp Shirov Variation is by far the wildest and most complex answer to the Caro." and "Black must study and learn all the lines in this chapter. Having a rough idea of what to do is just enough knowledge to get yourself mated."

I've found this line to be much more comfortable to play as White than as Black.
  
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Re: Caro-Kann, best attack for White?
Reply #4 - 03/31/12 at 10:19:39
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TN wrote on 03/31/12 at 07:15:08:
Andrew McKechnie wrote on 03/31/12 at 06:57:57:
I don't play the CK as Black and when I am faced with it, I only know the Main Line, which I am comfortable getting draws with. But I can't remember ever having a win with it (I guess that is the point of the CK).

I'd like to hear people's views about preferences for the exchange (and Panov) or advance variation. For example, if you play as White, which one do think provides more attacking chances. And if you play as Black, which one do you find more difficult to play against.  Or, am I best sticking with the solid Main Line that I know.


I'd say stick with the Main Line, but if you want an alternative you might also want to consider the Fantasy Variation which certainly leads to interesting positions where both sides are fighting tooth and nail for the initiative. Ivanchuk-Jobava is one example of the sort of chaos that can arise. Wink


The Ivanchuk-Jobava game you quote features the new-ish "anti-Fantasy" 3...Qb6 line by Black so it might not be the best example, considering that the top 3 alternatives for Black put together have 30 times as many games in chesslive.de.  I therefore think 3...Qb6 is of more interest to the Caro-Kann defender than attacker.
  
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Re: Caro-Kann, best attack for White?
Reply #3 - 03/31/12 at 09:20:25
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As I've taken up the C-K just recently, I cannot really tell about long games, but in Blitz I quite often face the Classical with 6.Bc4 (after 1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 dxe4 4.Nxe4 Bf5 5.Ng3 Bg6). My (limited) experience with that tells me that Black has to know his/her stuff and that the games become quite lively. White can play it with h2-h4 to provoke ...h6, and then (as fling pointed out, although in a slightly different context) sometimes use h5 for the manoeuvre N(g1-e2-)f4-h5, which I find a bit annoying as Black. This system is definitively sound and gives White quite good practical chances.

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Re: Caro-Kann, best attack for White?
Reply #2 - 03/31/12 at 08:35:31
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Andrew McKechnie wrote on 03/31/12 at 06:57:57:
And if you play as Black, which one do you find more difficult to play against.  Or, am I best sticking with the solid Main Line that I know.


I think the combination of what Black finds most difficult, and what you know the best, is what would give the best chances of course. The main line is what many Black players would know. The timing of g4 is what I think is the hardest to get for both sides. Another tricky variation could be when not advancing the pawn to h5. Black may not realize it can make a big difference since the square is available for a White piece in the attack.

What type of play do you prefer? This is what would determine what other line you want to look at. The Fantasy variation is not typical CK for me, but pretty common, and therefore Black players might know it pretty well. Still, if the style suits you, I'd guess it would be good to play for you in practice.
  
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Re: Caro-Kann, best attack for White?
Reply #1 - 03/31/12 at 07:15:08
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Andrew McKechnie wrote on 03/31/12 at 06:57:57:
I don't play the CK as Black and when I am faced with it, I only know the Main Line, which I am comfortable getting draws with. But I can't remember ever having a win with it (I guess that is the point of the CK).

I'd like to hear people's views about preferences for the exchange (and Panov) or advance variation. For example, if you play as White, which one do think provides more attacking chances. And if you play as Black, which one do you find more difficult to play against.  Or, am I best sticking with the solid Main Line that I know.


I'd say stick with the Main Line, but if you want an alternative you might also want to consider the Fantasy Variation which certainly leads to interesting positions where both sides are fighting tooth and nail for the initiative. Ivanchuk-Jobava is one example of the sort of chaos that can arise. Wink
  

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Caro-Kann, best attack for White?
03/31/12 at 06:57:57
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I don't play the CK as Black and when I am faced with it, I only know the Main Line, which I am comfortable getting draws with. But I can't remember ever having a win with it (I guess that is the point of the CK).

I'd like to hear people's views about preferences for the exchange (and Panov) or advance variation. For example, if you play as White, which one do think provides more attacking chances. And if you play as Black, which one do you find more difficult to play against.  Or, am I best sticking with the solid Main Line that I know.
  
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