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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Deciding what to play against the closed games (Read 9431 times)
Gilchrist is a legend
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Re: Deciding what to play against the closed games
Reply #18 - 04/10/12 at 20:13:45
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Matemax wrote on 04/10/12 at 19:37:07:
Gilchrist is a legend wrote on 04/10/12 at 19:21:19:
Yes, it depends on the rating. One of my opponents when I played in the 2008 Canadian Open (will not say who) was approximately 2350 and it was difficult for me to prepare beforehand as White because my opponent played so many main line openings, against both 1. d4 and 1. e4, and seemed to do well with that strategy.

If you are faithful with your openings and you know them well you don't need to prepare. You may just look up which line of your opening your opponent is playing and refresh your knowledge a bit. Afterwards you enjoy the evening with your friends instead of going through tons of variations.


Except unfortunately when I played in that tournament I knew no one there.  Smiley

But if also you want to prepare a new/surprise line within your opening that you had never played before for a specific opponent, then some extra work may be needed. For example if I play Grünfeld, opponent plays 7. Nf3, and I play usually 9...cxd4/11...Qxa2 line, I might prepare instead 9... b6/10...Qc7 since opponent have spent all time reviewing 9...cxd4/11...Qxa2 and no time on the latter.
  

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Re: Deciding what to play against the closed games
Reply #17 - 04/10/12 at 19:37:07
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Gilchrist is a legend wrote on 04/10/12 at 19:21:19:
Yes, it depends on the rating. One of my opponents when I played in the 2008 Canadian Open (will not say who) was approximately 2350 and it was difficult for me to prepare beforehand as White because my opponent played so many main line openings, against both 1. d4 and 1. e4, and seemed to do well with that strategy.

If you are faithful with your openings and you know them well you don't need to prepare. You may just look up which line of your opening your opponent is playing and refresh your knowledge a bit. Afterwards you enjoy the evening with your friends instead of going through tons of variations.
  
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Re: Deciding what to play against the closed games
Reply #16 - 04/10/12 at 19:21:19
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Yes, it depends on the rating. One of my opponents when I played in the 2008 Canadian Open (will not say who) was approximately 2350 and it was difficult for me to prepare beforehand as White because my opponent played so many main line openings, against both 1. d4 and 1. e4, and seemed to do well with that strategy.
  

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Matemax
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Re: Deciding what to play against the closed games
Reply #15 - 04/10/12 at 11:46:12
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Gilchrist is a legend wrote on 04/10/12 at 07:19:39:
It depends on your rating as well--a 2400 can easily play three or more defences, and some of my opponents that I have played against play about three to four defences regularly, for example Grünfeld, King's Indian, Nimzo Indian, Ragozin. If you play fianchetto defences you can try Grünfeld with King's Indian or if you prefer solid light square defences, the QGD and Slav/Semi-Slav complexes.

The question is not what you play but how well you do it. I can also play several openings either with White and Black. But I know where I have my strengths and weaknesses and against stronger opponents I prefer to play on my "strength-playground". I don't think amateurs are capable of really mastering King's Indian, Grünfeld, Nimzo Indian and Ragozin. You can play these openings hoping you get some main lines you've seen or studied. Just take Vigoritos Books on the King's Indian or Avrukhs tomes - hats off if you have time to study them deeply.
  
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Re: Deciding what to play against the closed games
Reply #14 - 04/10/12 at 07:19:39
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It depends on your rating as well--a 2400 can easily play three or more defences, and some of my opponents that I have played against play about three to four defences regularly, for example Grünfeld, King's Indian, Nimzo Indian, Ragozin. If you play fianchetto defences you can try Grünfeld with King's Indian or if you prefer solid light square defences, the QGD and Slav/Semi-Slav complexes.
  

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Re: Deciding what to play against the closed games
Reply #13 - 04/10/12 at 06:42:13
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gramsci wrote on 04/09/12 at 19:04:05:
Do you mean it's better to keep faithful to one main system having different responses for each line than to have two different systems vs 1.e4 & 1.d4?

yes - otherwise you miss the real depth and nuances of your favourite opening. Next step: find similar ideas of your opening in related systems and try to find a way to move order your opponent to them (eg assimilitating some Modern Benoni and Benko to the Kings Indian in your play). You have more success if you are a specialist in certain lines - if people run into them you can beat way stronger opponents...
  
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MNb
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Re: Deciding what to play against the closed games
Reply #12 - 04/10/12 at 03:04:43
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gramsci wrote on 04/09/12 at 18:54:34:
May be I should pair it with pure Slav, the Chebanenko or the Noteboom?

Why not, if you prefer that to the Botvinnik and the Moscow Gambit?
When I played the Meran I played it as a complement to the Noteboom, which I played as a complement to the Albin's Countergambit. But that's corr. chess.

At the moment I combine the TMB with the Classical Dutch ...Bb4(+). There are no laws forbidding weird combinations of openings.

gramsci wrote on 04/09/12 at 19:04:05:
Do you mean it's better to keep faithful to one main system having different responses for each line than to have two different systems vs 1.e4 & 1.d4?

Why should one approach be better than another? Having two different systems vs. both demands more time and work. If you are willing to spend it, go ahead. It always has been too much for me.
In another sense I always have had back up systems though: interesting and attractive ideas in some opening that allow me to change my repertoire very quickly if I become dissatisfied. That happens about every six years. I typically only change parts of my repertoire at a time. I have been playing the French for 14 years now, but already have a good idea what will be my next answer to 1.e4, without any detailed study.
  

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Re: Deciding what to play against the closed games
Reply #11 - 04/09/12 at 19:04:05
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Matemax wrote on 04/09/12 at 15:12:03:
LostTactic wrote on 04/09/12 at 13:51:54:

Below GM-level nobody needs a "back-up" line - games at our level are NOT decided by opening knowledge. The King's Indian is a very fighting opening with reasonable winning chances - you should vary your responses, then your opponents will have their headaches for sure.

Do you mean it's better to keep faithful to one main system having different responses for each line than to have two different systems vs 1.e4 & 1.d4?
  
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Re: Deciding what to play against the closed games
Reply #10 - 04/09/12 at 18:54:34
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MNb wrote on 04/09/12 at 18:04:56:
Quote:
But there are styles and attitudes to playing, and some openings fit better certain styles than others ...
I'm all in for an opening that gives me a lot of tactical chances ...

The Meran.

And how do you pair it? I'd really like to play the Meran as black but I do not know what to play agaisnst 5.Bg5. I think the Botvinnik and the Anti-Moscow Gambit are too risky if not better for White. The Cambridge-Springs has not enough dynsmism. May be I sholud pair it with pure Slav or the Noteboom?
« Last Edit: 04/10/12 at 05:21:44 by gramsci »  
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Re: Deciding what to play against the closed games
Reply #9 - 04/09/12 at 18:04:56
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Quote:
But there are styles and attitudes to playing, and some openings fit better certain styles than others ...
I'm all in for an opening that gives me a lot of tactical chances ...

The Meran.

Quote:
the semi-slav too theoretical and they are not universally playable against c4 since white can play e4 at some point,

That's why I wrote that there is no miracle cure. You'll have to compromise one way or another.
It's the same with the English. You can't make 1.c4 e5 work, you don't like the passivity of the Symmetrical ....
Reread your initial post. You have rejected almost everything a priori and have objections against the two that remain.
You should adopt a positive attitude: I want to play such and such positions, I'm going to find out what the problems with suitable openings are and I'm going to solve them.
Or you can sit and wait for Caissa to present you the Philosopher's Stone.
Btw if Black plays an early ...Nf6 and d5 in the Symmetrical he/she is not quite doomed to passivity. Yes, there are problems here too. That's the nature of chess.
  

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Re: Deciding what to play against the closed games
Reply #8 - 04/09/12 at 15:12:03
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LostTactic wrote on 04/09/12 at 13:51:54:
gramsci wrote on 04/07/12 at 11:25:07:
I've had the same troouble lately. I knew I must play the Najdorf against 1e4 but I didn't know what to play vs. 1d4. Finallly the I've chosen the KID, and the Grunfeld as a buck-up line.


I don't think it's wise to have the Grunfeld as a back-up line, the amount of maintenance it will require is not worth it unless it's your primary opening. A better choice would be some variation of the QGD (Ragozin or Tartakower would be my suggestions), theory won't change as much here and will also give you the joy of studying some classical chess.

Below GM-level nobody needs a "back-up" line - games at our level are NOT decided by opening knowledge. The King's Indian is a very fighting opening with reasonable winning chances - you should vary your responses, then your opponents will have their headaches for sure.
  
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Re: Deciding what to play against the closed games
Reply #7 - 04/09/12 at 13:51:54
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gramsci wrote on 04/07/12 at 11:25:07:
I've had the same troouble lately. I knew I must play the Najdorf against 1e4 but I didn't know what to play vs. 1d4. Finallly the I've chosen the KID, and the Grunfeld as a buck-up line.


I don't think it's wise to have the Grunfeld as a back-up line, the amount of maintenance it will require is not worth it unless it's your primary opening. A better choice would be some variation of the QGD (Ragozin or Tartakower would be my suggestions), theory won't change as much here and will also give you the joy of studying some classical chess.
  
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Re: Deciding what to play against the closed games
Reply #6 - 04/09/12 at 13:40:43
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If you want to play for a win you just have to raise your understanding of chess and your practical abilities at the board. If you are really stronger than your opponent you will win out of every opening - the opening will not win the game for you...
  
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Re: Deciding what to play against the closed games
Reply #5 - 04/09/12 at 12:28:46
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But there are styles and attitudes to playing, and some openings fit better certain styles than others ...
I'm all in for an opening that gives me a lot of tactical chances ...

MNb wrote on 04/05/12 at 16:59:13:
There is no miracle cure in opening theory, or everybody would play it.
Lower the bar a bit.

Disclaimer: I don't mean to be nasty or sarcastic; I'm completely serious.


The sniper seems to be a g6 Bg7 c5 setup against everything ... while this is playable it seems to be a more positional opening than a tactical one.
I also tried this approach one in blitz and looked at a cd from Bangiev who recommended this universal g6,Bg7,c5 approach.
The new old indian might be o.k., but I looked once at games from Topalov playing the old indian ... he never really got good play in this opening ... but it is something I have to investigate at some point

Vass wrote on 04/05/12 at 17:37:31:
You can try "The New Old Indian" as per Cherniaev & Prokuronov.  Wink
Or even "The Sniper"?!  Huh




The mainline in the Gruenfeld looks drawish to me there white plays cxd5, follows up with e4 and black has to take on c3.

Gilchrist is a legend wrote on 04/05/12 at 23:21:30:
Which main line of the Grünfeld looks drawish?

And if you do not like the Symmetrical, you do not have to play it, or the Anti-Grünfeld systems. You can play 1...e5 or another line. Usually you are not relinquishing the chance to play the Grünfeld because players who play Anti-Grünfeld systems are trying to avoid it in the first place.


I think I will play KID and Sicilian Kan, as backup lines I will play Nimzo/Benoni/Symmetrical against closed and Tiger's modern against 1.e4

gramsci wrote on 04/07/12 at 11:25:07:
I've had the same troouble lately. I knew I must play the Najdorf against 1e4 but I didn't know what to play vs. 1d4. Finallly the I've chosen the KID, and the Grunfeld as a buck-up line. 

  
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Re: Deciding what to play against the closed games
Reply #4 - 04/07/12 at 11:25:07
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I've had the same troouble lately. I knew I must play the Najdorf against 1e4 but I didn't know what to play vs. 1d4. Finallly the I've chosen the KID, and the Grunfeld as a buck-up line.
  
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Re: Deciding what to play against the closed games
Reply #3 - 04/05/12 at 23:21:30
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Which main line of the Grünfeld looks drawish?

And if you do not like the Symmetrical, you do not have to play it, or the Anti-Grünfeld systems. You can play 1...e5 or another line. Usually you are not relinquishing the chance to play the Grünfeld because players who play Anti-Grünfeld systems are trying to avoid it in the first place.
  

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Re: Deciding what to play against the closed games
Reply #2 - 04/05/12 at 17:37:31
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You can try "The New Old Indian" as per Cherniaev & Prokuronov.  Wink
Or even "The Sniper"?!  Huh
  
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Re: Deciding what to play against the closed games
Reply #1 - 04/05/12 at 16:59:13
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There is no miracle cure in opening theory, or everybody would play it.
Lower the bar a bit.

Disclaimer: I don't mean to be nasty or sarcastic; I'm completely serious.
  

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battleangel
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Deciding what to play against the closed games
04/05/12 at 15:22:07
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Hi,

really I am not sure what to play against the closed games as black ... since I want to play for a win in every game ...

Problem-Openings:
the problem with nimzo is it's not universal, don't know what to combine it with, neither the QGD nor the QID/Catalan are to my liking, d5 QGD or Tarrasch are both not really my case,
the normal slav is too passive, the semi-slav too theoretical and they are not universally playable against c4 since white can play e4 at some point, a6 slav seems good, but it's not universally playable for example 1.c4 still remains a problem, the dutch is not my case either, it's incorrect, stonewall is the only playable dutch, but it's just passive and the best move is often f5-f7 ... what also not like is neither e5 against c4, although I unserstand it is theoretically the best choice against c4, but somehow I cannot really make it work, neither open or with Bb4, ... nor do I really like c5 ... you often just end up in crummed positions, and white can play as passively as he wants and does not get punished for it ... for some time now I played a combination of nimzo/benoni/symmetrical ... while I like the nimzo, I don't really believe anymore in the Benoni and I don't like the passivity in the symmetrical ...

My choices right now:

1.) Gruenfeld, pro is you get immediately to play ... d5 against 1.c4 and throw out these mostly untalented c4 players out of their autopilot and you can get wins pretty fast against them, because when things get open and tactical most of them just fail to see even easy combinations working against them ... but the mainline of the gruenfeld seems are very drawish to me many people like to play it .... there's not much going on there ...
also there are anti-gruenfeld lines many gruenfeld players avoid by transposing into symmetrical english openings ... so these lines are probably not that good for black, but a transposition to the symmetrical english is not much to my liking ...

2.) King's Indian, although I excel in tactics and also can more easily thinkout side of patterns, I didn't play this opening ... because of its closedness and it's reputation to be very theoretical and sometimes it looks passive  for example in the variation (Gligoric?) where white plays early Be3 like kasparov played against carlsen ... but the more I look at games of the kid ... the better it seems to me ... I also liked to play the KIA as white, against 1.c4 you can build yourself up like in the closed sicilian ... I liked to play tiger's modern, but I don't believe it's fully correct, white not being obliged to c4 and being able to play c3 or Nc3 he can enforce his center pretty good with f4 without his center getting unstable like it does in the king's indian 4 pawns attack ... so the kid is a better version or theoretically more correct version of the modern ... the more and more I look into it, the KID is my only salvation to my problem with black against the closed games!
  
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