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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Common transpositions with unequal number of moves (Read 8431 times)
trw
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Re: Common transpositions with unequal number of moves
Reply #24 - 05/13/12 at 20:48:53
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I recognize that this is not a 'common' transposition but to me it is an amazing one!

I was studying a KID line and found the same position could be researched through the sicilian!

1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. Nf3 Bg7 4. Nc3 O-O 5. e4 d6 6. Be2 c5 7. O-O cxd4 8. Nxd4 Nc6 9. Be3 Bd7

1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 g6 3. c4 Bg7 4. d4 cxd4 5. Nxd4 Nc6 6. Be3 d6 7. Nc3 Nf6 8. Be2 Bd7 9. O-O O-O

  
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TD
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Re: Common transpositions with unequal number of moves
Reply #23 - 04/23/12 at 10:58:12
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"Speaking of the off topic variations revesed, at local club there used to be a player (before my time) who played 1 e3 as white and after e5 he played e4. They did however not tell me what he played after d5. "

I knew someone who played 1.c3 e5 2.c4. After 1...d5 I believe he played 2.d4, maybe plus e3 and f4.
  
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Re: Common transpositions with unequal number of moves
Reply #22 - 04/23/12 at 09:09:04
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1 d4 Nf6 2 c4 e6 3 Nc3 Bb4 4 e3 b6 5 f3 c5 6 d5 b5 7 e4 

1 d4 Nf6 2 c4 e6 3 Nc3 Bb4 4 f3 c5 5 d5 b5 6 e4      

I also know one line in Dragon Bc4 yugoslav where white play in Soltis mainline h4 h5 Bg5 Rc5 Kb1 Re8 Bh6 Nc4 than leeds to profylactic line where white plays Kb1 before h4 and black replies Re8 and after h4 h5 Bh6 Nc4 we reached the  same position, only catch is that white has better options than Bh6 in profylactic line.

Speaking of the off topic variations revesed, at local club there used to be a player (before my time) who played 1 e3 as white and after e5 he played e4. They did however not tell me what he played after d5.      
  
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Markovich
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Re: Common transpositions with unequal number of moves
Reply #21 - 04/22/12 at 11:50:33
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Zwischenzugzwang wrote on 04/22/12 at 10:38:37:
Just a few minutes ago, I "discovered" the following quite simple transposition in the Classical Nimzo-Indian, Romanishin-Variation (ECO Code [E34]):
1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 Bb4 4.Qc2 d5 5.cxd5 exd5 6.Nf3 Qf5 7.Qb3 c5 8.a3, and now both 8...Bxc3 9.Qxc3 and 8...Ba5 9.Qc4 Bxc3 10.Qxc3 lead to the same position.


Great!  It seems like there are some analogous transpos in those early Qb3 or Qa4 lines in the Gruenfeld, but I can't remember any offhand.
  
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Zwischenzugzwang
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Re: Common transpositions with unequal number of moves
Reply #20 - 04/22/12 at 10:38:37
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Just a few minutes ago, I "discovered" the following quite simple transposition in the Classical Nimzo-Indian, Romanishin-Variation (ECO Code [E34]):
1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 Bb4 4.Qc2 d5 5.cxd5 exd5 6.Nf3 Qf5 7.Qb3 c5 8.a3, and now both 8...Bxc3 9.Qxc3 and 8...Ba5 9.Qc4 Bxc3 10.Qxc3 lead to the same position.
  
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Re: Common transpositions with unequal number of moves
Reply #19 - 04/16/12 at 23:14:18
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Not sure if these "colours reversed" transpositions were intended to be part of the thread or not, but Stefan Bucker explored them in this article:
http://www.chesscafe.com/text/kaiss30.pdf
In addition to his examples, I remember someone starting a thread about the unsound line 1.e4 e5 2.b4, not realising that after 2...Bxb4 it is the same as 1.e4 e5 2.Bc4 b5 3.Bxb5.
  
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Re: Common transpositions with unequal number of moves
Reply #18 - 04/16/12 at 18:18:57
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1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. Bb5 Nd4 5. Bc4 Bc5
is the same as
1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bc4 Bc5 4. Nc3 Nf6 5. Nd5
with reversed colours.
  
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Re: Common transpositions with unequal number of moves
Reply #17 - 04/16/12 at 18:00:37
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1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 e6 3. Nc3 Bb4 4. a3 Bxc3+ 5. bxc3 b6 6.f3 Nc6 7.e4 Ba6

1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 e6 3. Nc3 Bb4 4. a3 Bxc3+ 5. bxc3 b6 6. e3 Bb7 7. f3 Nc6 8. e4 Ba6
  
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Re: Common transpositions with unequal number of moves
Reply #16 - 04/16/12 at 15:57:06
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Does the following count:

1 Nf3 c5 2 c4 Nc6 3 Nc3 e5 4 e3 Nf6 5 d4 cxd4 6 exd4 e4 7 Ng5 Bb4

and 

1 Nf3 c5 2 c4 Nf6 3 Nc3 e6 4 e4 Nc6 5 Be2 d5 6 cxd5 exd5 7 e5 Ng4 8 Bb5

gives the same position, but with opposite colours and different tempi.  There are many such positions, of course, but this is one of the few recognized ones where white losing a tempo is considered good!
  
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Re: Common transpositions with unequal number of moves
Reply #15 - 04/16/12 at 10:44:56
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There is one in the Tennison Gambit (not one of White's better gambits btw) that Gary Lane noted at one of his ChessCafe.com articles.  

1.Nf3 d5 2.e4 (or 1.e4 d5 2.Nf3) 2...dxe4 3.Ng5 Bf5 4.Nc3 Nf6
and
1.e4 d6 2.Nc3 Nf6 3.e5 dxe5 4.Nf3 e4 5.Ng5 Bf5
  
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Re: Common transpositions with unequal number of moves
Reply #14 - 04/16/12 at 09:36:38
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TD wrote on 04/16/12 at 08:25:06:
This is not an UNEQUAL number of moves...

mea culpa
  
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Re: Common transpositions with unequal number of moves
Reply #13 - 04/16/12 at 08:56:51
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1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 c5 3.d5 b5 4.cb5 a6 5.ba6 Ba6; 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 c5 3.d5 b5 4.cb5 a6 5.Nc3 ab5 6.Nb5 Ba6 7.Nc3. However in the first line 5...g6 is more precise, and in the second 6...Qa5 is stronger.
  
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Re: Common transpositions with unequal number of moves
Reply #12 - 04/16/12 at 08:25:06
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This is not an UNEQUAL number of moves...
  
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Re: Common transpositions with unequal number of moves
Reply #11 - 04/16/12 at 06:19:52
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trw wrote on 04/16/12 at 00:15:40:
1. f4 e5   2. fxe5 d6   3. exd6 Bxd6   4. Nf3 
is the same as
1. f4 e5   2. fxe5 d6   3. Nf3 dxe5   4. Nxe5 Bd6   5. Nf3

much easier: 1.f4 e5 2.e4 - 1.e4 e5 2.f4
  
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Re: Common transpositions with unequal number of moves
Reply #10 - 04/16/12 at 00:15:40
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1. f4 e5   2. fxe5 d6   3. exd6 Bxd6   4. Nf3 
is the same as
1. f4 e5   2. fxe5 d6   3. Nf3 dxe5   4. Nxe5 Bd6   5. Nf3
  
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