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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) 1.d4 d5 2.Bg5 Where can I find some theory? (Read 27760 times)
Glenn Snow
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Re: 1.d4 d5 2.Bg5 Where can I find some theory?
Reply #19 - 04/25/12 at 02:30:46
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TN wrote on 04/24/12 at 17:14:03:
Smyslov_Fan wrote on 04/24/12 at 16:36:49:
Why is this thread still in the 1.d4 d5 2.c4 section?


The opening comes under both 1.d4 d5 and D-pawn specials, so it seems we have a conflict of interest between two non-living things. Grin


That may be but here on Chesspub it belongs in d-pawn specials.

  
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TN
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Re: 1.d4 d5 2.Bg5 Where can I find some theory?
Reply #18 - 04/24/12 at 17:14:03
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Smyslov_Fan wrote on 04/24/12 at 16:36:49:
Why is this thread still in the 1.d4 d5 2.c4 section?


The opening comes under both 1.d4 d5 and D-pawn specials, so it seems we have a conflict of interest between two non-living things. Grin
  
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Smyslov_Fan
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Re: 1.d4 d5 2.Bg5 Where can I find some theory?
Reply #17 - 04/24/12 at 16:36:49
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Why is this thread still in the 1.d4 d5 2.c4 section?
  
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nyoke
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Re: 1.d4 d5 2.Bg5 Where can I find some theory?
Reply #16 - 04/24/12 at 14:16:32
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Quote:
Gallagher's 1998 book covers it.


i.e. Gallagher's book on the Tromp, which is prolly the best source up to now.
Plasketts book sucks : it is in the 'revealed'-format, but he uses that format just for presenting the different variations, which allows him very conveniently to ignore some...
But perhaps we can say that the whole opening sucks, too, al least when Black does not comply with 2...Nf6.
  
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Re: 1.d4 d5 2.Bg5 Where can I find some theory?
Reply #15 - 04/24/12 at 13:16:06
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gwnn wrote on 04/24/12 at 09:56:28:
I'm not a big statistician, but shouldn't you include also the average rating of white and black in the two cases?


If the data are consistent, the average rating of Black is coded in White's TPR and his score, the average rating of White (Hodgson) in the respective black figures. But here are the average ratings:

- In 1.d4 d5 2.Bg5-games: W 2574, B 2442,
- in 1.d4 Nf6 2.Bg5-games: W 2570, B 2456.
  
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Re: 1.d4 d5 2.Bg5 Where can I find some theory?
Reply #14 - 04/24/12 at 10:20:15
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[quote author=0D21322B2F36292328400 link=1334988550/8#8 date=1335110515][quote author=625C48425D5E476E77505F310 link=1334988550/7#7 date=1335018051]Here, you might be able to find coverage in the section on d-pawn specials. 

This section is devoted to 1.d4 d5 2.c4 lines.

It's sometimes called the Pseudo-Trompowsky.

Here's a link to one such thread:

http://www.chesspub.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1252575877/3[/quote]

Independently of what people actually say, "Pseudo" would seem inappropriate.  "Quasi" would be correct, would it not?[/quote]

Wouldn't the use of either reflect on the speaker's attitude? Pseudo saying it looks like a Tromp but really [i]isn't[/i] (or tries to impersonate the Tromp) while Quasi just says that it looks like a Tromp but not quite...

Maybe "Semi Tromp" would be the impartial version...

Btw, didn't we "rename" this line in a poll some years ago? Iirc the winner was "Hodgson Attack"
  
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Re: 1.d4 d5 2.Bg5 Where can I find some theory?
Reply #13 - 04/24/12 at 09:56:28
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I'm not a big statistician, but shouldn't you include also the average rating of white and black in the two cases? I imagine the avg rating of white (GM Hodgson) is very similar, but there is a small chance that in this case the black players who played 1 .. d5 were lower rated than the ones who played 1 .. Nf6 (because of coincidence or because GM Hodgson opted for 2 c4 against 1 .. d5, or because of something else that I can't think of).
  
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Zwischenzugzwang
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Re: 1.d4 d5 2.Bg5 Where can I find some theory?
Reply #12 - 04/24/12 at 08:22:04
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Something for our statistics friends:

I only took games with Hodgson as White into consideration. In Mega 2012, there are 93 games with 1.d4 d5 2.Bg5, scoring 68.3 %, White's TPR was 2580, while his opponents reached 2466.
The same data for 1.d4 Nf6 2.Bg5: 234 games, 73.9 %, White's TPR = 2647, Black's TPR = 2410.
So the Tromp proper might indeed be better than the Pseudoquasialmosttromp.  Cool
  
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Re: 1.d4 d5 2.Bg5 Where can I find some theory?
Reply #11 - 04/23/12 at 12:36:00
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Markovich wrote on 04/22/12 at 16:01:55:

Independently of what people actually say, "Pseudo" would seem inappropriate.  "Quasi" would be correct, would it not?

Not 100% sure, but wouldnt pseudo imply a worse version of the Tromp, while quasi would mean similar? In that case pseudo would be correct I think.

On the subject I dont think there is much written on the subject from a white perspective.
  
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Re: 1.d4 d5 2.Bg5 Where can I find some theory?
Reply #10 - 04/22/12 at 21:42:14
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I've seen the name "Levitsky attack" for 1.d4 d5 2.Bg5. Can't remember where.
  
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Re: 1.d4 d5 2.Bg5 Where can I find some theory?
Reply #9 - 04/22/12 at 16:33:45
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Speaking of older stuff, I recall a Yearbook article quite some years ago, the thrust of which was that the line with ...h6, ...c6 and ...Qb6 was comfortable for Black.  That's what Rizzitano later chose for his repertoire book.   
  
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Re: 1.d4 d5 2.Bg5 Where can I find some theory?
Reply #8 - 04/22/12 at 16:01:55
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Smyslov_Fan wrote on 04/21/12 at 14:20:51:
Here, you might be able to find coverage in the section on d-pawn specials. 

This section is devoted to 1.d4 d5 2.c4 lines.

It's sometimes called the Pseudo-Trompowsky.

Here's a link to one such thread:

http://www.chesspub.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1252575877/3


Independently of what people actually say, "Pseudo" would seem inappropriate.  "Quasi" would be correct, would it not?
  
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Re: 1.d4 d5 2.Bg5 Where can I find some theory?
Reply #7 - 04/21/12 at 14:20:51
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Here, you might be able to find coverage in the section on d-pawn specials. 

This section is devoted to 1.d4 d5 2.c4 lines.

It's sometimes called the Pseudo-Trompowsky.

Here's a link to one such thread:

http://www.chesspub.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1252575877/3
  
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Re: 1.d4 d5 2.Bg5 Where can I find some theory?
Reply #6 - 04/21/12 at 11:01:12
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Gallagher's 1998 book covers it. Old and short book but perhaps theory does not move on so much, especially at amateur levels.
  
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Re: 1.d4 d5 2.Bg5 Where can I find some theory?
Reply #5 - 04/21/12 at 09:45:04
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Cox calls this opening the "Pseudo-Tromp"; is that the "official" name? As far as I know, the "eastern" version of that (1.e4 e5 2.Bb5) is called "Portuguese Opening", so one might call 1.d4 d5 2.Bg5 the "Brazilian Opening"!?  Smiley Btw, wasn't Trompo(v/w)sk(y/i) Brazilian?
  
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