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1.d4 d5 2.Bg5 Where can I find some theory? (Read 27763 times)

Glenn Snow God Member Offline Posts: 1720 Location: Franklin Joined: 09/27/03 Gender:	Re: 1.d4 d5 2.Bg5 Where can I find some theory? Reply #19 - 04/25/12 at 02:30:46	Post Tools	Print Post
	TN wrote on 04/24/12 at 17:14:03: Smyslov_Fan wrote on 04/24/12 at 16:36:49: Why is this thread still in the 1.d4 d5 2.c4 section? The opening comes under both 1.d4 d5 and D-pawn specials, so it seems we have a conflict of interest between two non-living things. That may be but here on Chesspub it belongs in d-pawn specials.


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TN God Member Offline Posts: 3420 Joined: 11/07/08 Gender:	Re: 1.d4 d5 2.Bg5 Where can I find some theory? Reply #18 - 04/24/12 at 17:14:03	Post Tools	Print Post
	Smyslov_Fan wrote on 04/24/12 at 16:36:49: Why is this thread still in the 1.d4 d5 2.c4 section? The opening comes under both 1.d4 d5 and D-pawn specials, so it seems we have a conflict of interest between two non-living things.

	All our dreams come true if we have the courage to pursue them.
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Smyslov_Fan God Member Correspondence fan Offline Progress depends on the unreasonable man. ~GBS Posts: 6902 Joined: 06/15/05	Re: 1.d4 d5 2.Bg5 Where can I find some theory? Reply #17 - 04/24/12 at 16:36:49	Post Tools	Print Post
	Why is this thread still in the 1.d4 d5 2.c4 section?


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nyoke God Member Offline I Love ChessPublishing! Posts: 593 Location: BELGIUM Joined: 12/31/06 Gender:	Re: 1.d4 d5 2.Bg5 Where can I find some theory? Reply #16 - 04/24/12 at 14:16:32	Post Tools	Print Post
	Quote: Gallagher's 1998 book covers it. i.e. Gallagher's book on the Tromp, which is prolly the best source up to now. Plasketts book sucks : it is in the 'revealed'-format, but he uses that format just for presenting the different variations, which allows him very conveniently to ignore some... But perhaps we can say that the whole opening sucks, too, al least when Black does not comply with 2...Nf6.


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Zwischenzugzwang Senior Member Offline I Love ChessPublishing & chess pubs! Posts: 380 Location: Zotzenbach Joined: 06/14/11 Gender:	Re: 1.d4 d5 2.Bg5 Where can I find some theory? Reply #15 - 04/24/12 at 13:16:06	Post Tools	Print Post
	gwnn wrote on 04/24/12 at 09:56:28: I'm not a big statistician, but shouldn't you include also the average rating of white and black in the two cases? If the data are consistent, the average rating of Black is coded in White's TPR and his score, the average rating of White (Hodgson) in the respective black figures. But here are the average ratings: - In 1.d4 d5 2.Bg5-games: W 2574, B 2442, - in 1.d4 Nf6 2.Bg5-games: W 2570, B 2456.

	What do people mean when they say "Chess is the pawn of the soul"?
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TalJechin God Member Offline There is no secret ingredient. Posts: 2892 Location: Malmö Joined: 08/12/04 Gender:	Re: 1.d4 d5 2.Bg5 Where can I find some theory? Reply #14 - 04/24/12 at 10:20:15	Post Tools	Print Post
	[quote author=0D21322B2F36292328400 link=1334988550/8#8 date=1335110515][quote author=625C48425D5E476E77505F310 link=1334988550/7#7 date=1335018051]Here, you might be able to find coverage in the section on d-pawn specials. This section is devoted to 1.d4 d5 2.c4 lines. It's sometimes called the Pseudo-Trompowsky. Here's a link to one such thread: http://www.chesspub.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1252575877/3[/quote] Independently of what people actually say, "Pseudo" would seem inappropriate. "Quasi" would be correct, would it not?[/quote] Wouldn't the use of either reflect on the speaker's attitude? Pseudo saying it looks like a Tromp but really [i]isn't[/i] (or tries to impersonate the Tromp) while Quasi just says that it looks like a Tromp but not quite... Maybe "Semi Tromp" would be the impartial version... Btw, didn't we "rename" this line in a poll some years ago? Iirc the winner was "Hodgson Attack"


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gwnn Senior Member Offline Posts: 472 Joined: 03/21/11	Re: 1.d4 d5 2.Bg5 Where can I find some theory? Reply #13 - 04/24/12 at 09:56:28	Post Tools	Print Post
	I'm not a big statistician, but shouldn't you include also the average rating of white and black in the two cases? I imagine the avg rating of white (GM Hodgson) is very similar, but there is a small chance that in this case the black players who played 1 .. d5 were lower rated than the ones who played 1 .. Nf6 (because of coincidence or because GM Hodgson opted for 2 c4 against 1 .. d5, or because of something else that I can't think of).


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Zwischenzugzwang Senior Member Offline I Love ChessPublishing & chess pubs! Posts: 380 Location: Zotzenbach Joined: 06/14/11 Gender:	Re: 1.d4 d5 2.Bg5 Where can I find some theory? Reply #12 - 04/24/12 at 08:22:04	Post Tools	Print Post
	Something for our statistics friends: I only took games with Hodgson as White into consideration. In Mega 2012, there are 93 games with 1.d4 d5 2.Bg5, scoring 68.3 %, White's TPR was 2580, while his opponents reached 2466. The same data for 1.d4 Nf6 2.Bg5: 234 games, 73.9 %, White's TPR = 2647, Black's TPR = 2410. So the Tromp proper might indeed be better than the Pseudoquasialmosttromp.

	What do people mean when they say "Chess is the pawn of the soul"?
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Willempie God Member Offline I love ChessPublishing .com! Posts: 4312 Location: Holland Joined: 01/07/05	Re: 1.d4 d5 2.Bg5 Where can I find some theory? Reply #11 - 04/23/12 at 12:36:00	Post Tools	Print Post
	Markovich wrote on 04/22/12 at 16:01:55: Independently of what people actually say, "Pseudo" would seem inappropriate. "Quasi" would be correct, would it not? Not 100% sure, but wouldnt pseudo imply a worse version of the Tromp, while quasi would mean similar? In that case pseudo would be correct I think. On the subject I dont think there is much written on the subject from a white perspective.

	If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
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Stigma God Member Offline There is a crack in everything. Posts: 3277 Joined: 11/07/06 Gender:	Re: 1.d4 d5 2.Bg5 Where can I find some theory? Reply #10 - 04/22/12 at 21:42:14	Post Tools	Print Post
	I've seen the name "Levitsky attack" for 1.d4 d5 2.Bg5. Can't remember where.

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kylemeister God Member Offline Posts: 4989 Location: USA Joined: 10/24/05	Re: 1.d4 d5 2.Bg5 Where can I find some theory? Reply #9 - 04/22/12 at 16:33:45	Post Tools	Print Post
	Speaking of older stuff, I recall a Yearbook article quite some years ago, the thrust of which was that the line with ...h6, ...c6 and ...Qb6 was comfortable for Black. That's what Rizzitano later chose for his repertoire book.


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Markovich God Member Offline Posts: 6099 Location: Columbus, Ohio Joined: 09/17/04	Re: 1.d4 d5 2.Bg5 Where can I find some theory? Reply #8 - 04/22/12 at 16:01:55	Post Tools	Print Post
	Smyslov_Fan wrote on 04/21/12 at 14:20:51: Here, you might be able to find coverage in the section on d-pawn specials. This section is devoted to 1.d4 d5 2.c4 lines. It's sometimes called the Pseudo-Trompowsky. Here's a link to one such thread: http://www.chesspub.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1252575877/3 Independently of what people actually say, "Pseudo" would seem inappropriate. "Quasi" would be correct, would it not?

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Smyslov_Fan God Member Correspondence fan Offline Progress depends on the unreasonable man. ~GBS Posts: 6902 Joined: 06/15/05	Re: 1.d4 d5 2.Bg5 Where can I find some theory? Reply #7 - 04/21/12 at 14:20:51	Post Tools	Print Post
	Here, you might be able to find coverage in the section on d-pawn specials. This section is devoted to 1.d4 d5 2.c4 lines. It's sometimes called the Pseudo-Trompowsky. Here's a link to one such thread: http://www.chesspub.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1252575877/3


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gwnn Senior Member Offline Posts: 472 Joined: 03/21/11	Re: 1.d4 d5 2.Bg5 Where can I find some theory? Reply #6 - 04/21/12 at 11:01:12	Post Tools	Print Post
	Gallagher's 1998 book covers it. Old and short book but perhaps theory does not move on so much, especially at amateur levels.


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Zwischenzugzwang Senior Member Offline I Love ChessPublishing & chess pubs! Posts: 380 Location: Zotzenbach Joined: 06/14/11 Gender:	Re: 1.d4 d5 2.Bg5 Where can I find some theory? Reply #5 - 04/21/12 at 09:45:04	Post Tools	Print Post
	Cox calls this opening the "Pseudo-Tromp"; is that the "official" name? As far as I know, the "eastern" version of that (1.e4 e5 2.Bb5) is called "Portuguese Opening", so one might call 1.d4 d5 2.Bg5 the "Brazilian Opening"!? Btw, wasn't Trompo(v/w)sk(y/i) Brazilian?

	What do people mean when they say "Chess is the pawn of the soul"?
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Vass God Member Offline I Love ChessPublishing! Posts: 1105 Joined: 06/22/11	Re: 1.d4 d5 2.Bg5 Where can I find some theory? Reply #4 - 04/21/12 at 08:51:03	Post Tools	Print Post
	Well, John Cox published his excellent "Dealing with d4 deviations" book through 'Everyman chess' back in 2005. There he advocates for 2...h6 3.Bh4 c6 very convincingly. Although I like 3...c5 as in this game: Download game in pgn format Very original setup for black is 2...f6 3.Bh4 Nh6 4.e3 Nf5 5.Bg3 h5 ... Overall, white successfully equalize with 2.Bg5


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fling God Member Offline I Love ChessPublishing! Posts: 1591 Joined: 01/21/11 Gender:	Re: 1.d4 d5 2.Bg5 Where can I find some theory? Reply #3 - 04/21/12 at 08:28:23	Post Tools	Print Post
	Also, Rizzitano has a chapter on this variation in How to Beat 1 d4, from Black's perspective again, though.


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Zwischenzugzwang Senior Member Offline I Love ChessPublishing & chess pubs! Posts: 380 Location: Zotzenbach Joined: 06/14/11 Gender:	Re: 1.d4 d5 2.Bg5 Where can I find some theory? Reply #2 - 04/21/12 at 07:43:41	Post Tools	Print Post
	In SOS vol. 7 Bosch deals with the variation 1.d4 d5 2.Bg5 f6 (appr. 10 pages), rather from Black's point of view. Cox devotes a short chapter (6 pages) to the variation 2...h6 in his "Dealing with d4 Deviations". Also from Black's point of view. No personal experience - as White, I'd go 1.d4 d5 2.c4, and as Black 1.d4 Nf6 - sorry for that! Best regards, Zwischenzugzwang

	What do people mean when they say "Chess is the pawn of the soul"?
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Igor Junior Member Offline Schild und Schwert der Partei! Posts: 79 Location: Italy Joined: 04/12/09 Gender:	Re: 1.d4 d5 2.Bg5 Where can I find some theory? Reply #1 - 04/21/12 at 07:27:23	Post Tools	Print Post
	There is a book by Plaskett - "Queen's Pawn Attack Revealed", but the reviews are quite poor - http://www.chessville.com/reviews/QueensBishopAttackRevealed.htm - http://www.jeremysilman.com/book_reviews_jd/jd_two_takes_on_Bg5.html


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fairchess Junior Member Offline I Love ChessPublishing! Posts: 58 Joined: 03/25/09	1.d4 d5 2.Bg5 Where can I find some theory? 04/21/12 at 06:09:10	Post Tools	Print Post
	Probably this was already discussed, but I couldn't find it. a)Does any theory book / article exist on 1.d4 d5 2.Bg5? b)And what's your experience / opinion about this system? Thanks


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