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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) B76: 9.0-0-0 Nxd4 10.Bxd4 Be6 11.Kb1! Qc7 12.Nb5!! (Read 11180 times)
atticus
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Re: B76: 9.0-0-0 Nxd4 10.Bxd4 Be6 11.Kb1! Qc7 12.Nb5!!
Reply #11 - 05/07/12 at 00:13:03
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BleepBleep wrote on 04/29/12 at 13:23:52:
Well, that is less than helpful as Vigorito himself points out the strong 16.Nd5! (instead of Smeets` 16.Ne2) which virtually refutes Black`s play.

Perhaps someone can tell me if GM Ward has looked at this (12. Nb5) in any of his Updates?


Did you even check Vigorito's lines with a computer? I very much would like to hear how he ''refuted'' 16... Bxd5 15.exd5 Qxd5 (Houdini's first choice) for example.
« Last Edit: 05/07/12 at 13:09:16 by atticus »  

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bragesjo
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Re: B76: 9.0-0-0 Nxd4 10.Bxd4 Be6 11.Kb1! Qc7 12.Nb5!!
Reply #10 - 05/04/12 at 11:32:05
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I think that at least 90 % of all Dragon players prefer 9 .. d5 these days and d5 is the move I have played my entire carrier and I have no practical expereince in Nxd4 line at all from either side. I For my part I was not even aware of 12 Nb5, I thought that black was busted in other lines of this system.
« Last Edit: 05/07/12 at 10:50:04 by MNb »  
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BleepBleep
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Re: B76: 9.0-0-0 Nxd4 10.Bxd4 Be6 11.Kb1! Qc7 12.Nb5!!
Reply #9 - 05/04/12 at 10:28:37
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So, over 225 views but not even one attempt to rescue 9..Nxd4 from the scrapheap. Come on guys, I thought you were all experts on the Dragon! Well, perhaps not... LOL.
  
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gewgaw
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Re: B76: 9.0-0-0 Nxd4 10.Bxd4 Be6 11.Kb1! Qc7 12.Nb5!!
Reply #8 - 04/29/12 at 17:23:16
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Ametanoitos wrote on 04/29/12 at 16:04:18:
Could you please give us the links?


http://www.chesspub.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1073869791

I skim read the thread and it´s definitely a good starting point, but I miss the crucial Kosteniuk game and some lines given by @topnotch. He made some valuable discoveries, which where published by Golubev somewhere.
« Last Edit: 04/29/12 at 22:44:25 by MNb »  

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MNb
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Re: B76: 9.0-0-0 Nxd4 10.Bxd4 Be6 11.Kb1! Qc7 12.Nb5!!
Reply #7 - 04/29/12 at 16:44:25
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BleepBleep wrote on 04/29/12 at 13:23:52:
Well, that is less than helpful as Vigorito himself points out the strong 16.Nd5!

Well, it would have been more helpful if you had mentioned that important improvement yourself in your OP.
  

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kylemeister
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Re: B76: 9.0-0-0 Nxd4 10.Bxd4 Be6 11.Kb1! Qc7 12.Nb5!!
Reply #6 - 04/29/12 at 16:38:40
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Incidentally 16. Nd5 was also not mentioned by Tiviakov in his 1990s monograph (16. Ne2 was given with a fair amount of analysis as leading to "unclear").
  
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bragesjo
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Re: B76: 9.0-0-0 Nxd4 10.Bxd4 Be6 11.Kb1! Qc7 12.Nb5!!
Reply #5 - 04/29/12 at 16:21:48
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I have not found time to read Chess devlopments - the Sicilian Dragon yet.
I actually thougt that black was in busted in other lines in this system.

Quick look at chesspub subscription give this games.

     * Iordachescu, V 2623- Braga, F 2435 1-0 2010
     * Smith, Bry 2503-  Milenkovic, M 2405 1-0 2011.

Qc6 is look at in notes but Nd5 is unmnetioned, 16 Nd5 seems slightly better for white at first glance, but I dont know theory or read any annotation about this position.

Total statistic ast chesspub after Qc7 is 23 white wins, 7 draws and 16 black wins.
  
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Ametanoitos
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Re: B76: 9.0-0-0 Nxd4 10.Bxd4 Be6 11.Kb1! Qc7 12.Nb5!!
Reply #4 - 04/29/12 at 16:04:18
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gewgaw wrote on 04/29/12 at 14:09:34:
I wasn´t aware of 12.Nb5, but a couple of years ago, the known dragon fanatics analysed this line in this forum and found lots of interesting lines for Black, but the conclusion was, due to a convincing victory by Kosteniuk, that White is simply better.
My first dragon book by IM Sapi/Schneider, twenty years ago, was sceptical about 9. ...Nxd4 and gave White a "+/-", so I was never a fan of this move and considered 9. ...d5 as the only move since then.


Could you please give us the links?
  
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gewgaw
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Re: B76: 9.0-0-0 Nxd4 10.Bxd4 Be6 11.Kb1! Qc7 12.Nb5!!
Reply #3 - 04/29/12 at 14:09:34
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I wasn´t aware of 12.Nb5, but a couple of years ago, the known dragon fanatics analysed this line in this forum and found lots of interesting lines for Black, but the conclusion was, due to a convincing victory by Kosteniuk, that White is simply better.
My first dragon book by IM Sapi/Schneider, twenty years ago, was sceptical about 9. ...Nxd4 and gave White a "+/-", so I was never a fan of this move and considered 9. ...d5 as the only move since then.
  

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Re: B76: 9.0-0-0 Nxd4 10.Bxd4 Be6 11.Kb1! Qc7 12.Nb5!!
Reply #2 - 04/29/12 at 13:23:52
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Well, that is less than helpful as Vigorito himself points out the strong 16.Nd5! (instead of Smeets` 16.Ne2) which virtually refutes Black`s play.

Perhaps someone can tell me if GM Ward has looked at this (12. Nb5) in any of his Updates?
  
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MNb
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Re: B76: 9.0-0-0 Nxd4 10.Bxd4 Be6 11.Kb1! Qc7 12.Nb5!!
Reply #1 - 04/29/12 at 12:19:50
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According to my database it's about 70% and after the reply 12...Qc6 the score drops to slightly more than 50%. Take a look at Smeets-Le Quang Liem, Olympiade 2008.
  

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BleepBleep
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B76: 9.0-0-0 Nxd4 10.Bxd4 Be6 11.Kb1! Qc7 12.Nb5!!
04/29/12 at 10:39:43
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Looking at the NIC database, White scores an amazing 90% after this odd-looking move. In Vigoretto`s new book, no satisfactory defence is offered. Is this the end for 9...Nxd4?
« Last Edit: 04/29/12 at 12:15:36 by MNb »  
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