(UTC)
Latest Updates:
  ChessPub Forum › Chess Publishing Openings › French › C00 : Chigorin 2. Qe2 e5
(Moderators: proustiskeen, Smyslov_Fan)
‹ Previous Topic | Next Topic ›
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 
Topic Tools
Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) C00 : Chigorin 2. Qe2 e5 (Read 12232 times)
George Jempty
Senior Member
****
Offline


Participant 1996 US Corres.
Champ. Qualifying Rd.

Posts: 303
Location: Carrollton, TX
Joined: 03/29/09
Gender: Male
Re: C00 : Chigorin 2. Qe2 e5
Reply #19 - 12/23/25 at 05:22:30
Post Tools
How about the draw by repetition line with queens and  both knights going back and forth for several moves LOL
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
George Jempty
Senior Member
****
Offline


Participant 1996 US Corres.
Champ. Qualifying Rd.

Posts: 303
Location: Carrollton, TX
Joined: 03/29/09
Gender: Male
Re: C00 : Chigorin 2. Qe2 e5
Reply #18 - 12/22/25 at 23:19:12
Post Tools
A thematic tourney with the French Tchigorin just got opened up on FICGS, I sort of instigated it, if you'd like to explore that line in centaur chess, join up!
« Last Edit: 12/23/25 at 05:23:38 by George Jempty »  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
George Jempty
Senior Member
****
Offline


Participant 1996 US Corres.
Champ. Qualifying Rd.

Posts: 303
Location: Carrollton, TX
Joined: 03/29/09
Gender: Male
Re: C00 : Chigorin 2. Qe2 e5
Reply #17 - 12/07/25 at 19:25:03
Post Tools
FreeRepublic wrote on 12/07/25 at 17:30:02:
an ordinary chessplayer wrote on 12/06/25 at 22:36:19:
French Defense players probably will know very little about Gunderam's Defense: 1.e4 e6 2.Qe2 e5 3.Qd1 Nf6 4.Qe2!.

Well, why not?

Going over this slowly. 1.e4 e6 French defense
2.Qe2 discourages ...d5. I believe this generally tends towards King's Indian Attack type of play.
2...e5 Answer a surprise with a surprise. I believe it has been recommended in the belief that the white queen is poorly placed. I'm not so sure.
3.Qd1 Answer extravagance with extravagance. Really, I see little merit to white choosing to play the black pieces. I rather like the idea mentioned by DOM of playing 3f4, but there are other reasonable moves.
3...Nf6 Makes sense.
4.Qe2. This defends the king pawn and continues the strategy of surprising the opponent. It is thematic given our play up to this point.


It may be "thematic", but it's trash.  Anyway guess I'm done with this thread, maybe until I write a book on it
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
FreeRepublic
God Member
*****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 951
Location: Georgia
Joined: 06/08/17
Gender: Male
Re: C00 : Chigorin 2. Qe2 e5
Reply #16 - 12/07/25 at 17:30:02
Post Tools
an ordinary chessplayer wrote on 12/06/25 at 22:36:19:
French Defense players probably will know very little about Gunderam's Defense: 1.e4 e6 2.Qe2 e5 3.Qd1 Nf6 4.Qe2!.

Well, why not?

Going over this slowly. 1.e4 e6 French defense
2.Qe2 discourages ...d5. I believe this generally tends towards King's Indian Attack type of play.
2...e5 Answer a surprise with a surprise. I believe it has been recommended in the belief that the white queen is poorly placed. I'm not so sure.
3.Qd1 Answer extravagance with extravagance. Really, I see little merit to white choosing to play the black pieces. I rather like the idea mentioned by DOM of playing 3f4, but there are other reasonable moves.
3...Nf6 Makes sense.
4.Qe2. This defends the king pawn and continues the strategy of surprising the opponent. It is thematic given our play up to this point.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
George Jempty
Senior Member
****
Offline


Participant 1996 US Corres.
Champ. Qualifying Rd.

Posts: 303
Location: Carrollton, TX
Joined: 03/29/09
Gender: Male
Re: C00 : Chigorin 2. Qe2 e5
Reply #15 - 12/06/25 at 23:48:50
Post Tools
an ordinary chessplayer wrote on 12/06/25 at 22:36:19:
George Jempty wrote on 12/06/25 at 15:15:59:
An alternative queen move to the bishop-freeing 3.Qe3?! is 3.Qd1!? transposing into a *reversed* "open game" (1.e4 e5) which might not be to Black's liking as a French player.

For example, French Defense players probably will know very little about Gunderam's Defense: 1.e4 e6 2.Qe2 e5 3.Qd1 Nf6 4.Qe2!.


Surely you jest?!  Or do you just think the whole variation for Black is just silly.  Because it isn't, it's a serious try.

Anyway, onward and upward!
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
an ordinary chessplayer
God Member
*****
Offline


I used to be not bad.

Posts: 1786
Location: Columbus, OH (USA)
Joined: 01/02/15
Re: C00 : Chigorin 2. Qe2 e5
Reply #14 - 12/06/25 at 22:36:19
Post Tools
George Jempty wrote on 12/06/25 at 15:15:59:
An alternative queen move to the bishop-freeing 3.Qe3?! is 3.Qd1!? transposing into a *reversed* "open game" (1.e4 e5) which might not be to Black's liking as a French player.

Yes, of course. White has many options there. For example, French Defense players probably will know very little about Gunderam's Defense: 1.e4 e6 2.Qe2 e5 3.Qd1 Nf6 4.Qe2!.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
George Jempty
Senior Member
****
Offline


Participant 1996 US Corres.
Champ. Qualifying Rd.

Posts: 303
Location: Carrollton, TX
Joined: 03/29/09
Gender: Male
Re: C00 : Chigorin 2. Qe2 e5
Reply #13 - 12/06/25 at 15:15:59
Post Tools
An alternative queen move to the bishop-freeing 3.Qe3?! is 3.Qd1!? transposing into a *reversed* "open game" (1.e4 e5) which might not be to Black's liking as a French player.  

In which case however I would recommend responding to 3.Qd1 with 3...Nf6 4.Nc3 h6!?  Then on 5. Nf3 Nc6 6. Bb5 a6 7. Bxc6 dxc6
8. Nxe5 Nxe4 9. Nxe4 Qd4 10. O-O Qxe5 11. Re1 Be6 and Black might have a slight edge

Furthermore and back to the 3.Qe3?! being primarily discussed in this thread, simply 3...g6 with possibilities of ...Bh6, especially against White's f4 ideas, though it can still get quite tricky for both sides in a non-KGA kind of way Wink

Furthermore on 3.Nf3 Nc6 4.Qe3? as discussed above, simply ...g7 and ...Bg7 and Black is a bit better
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
dom
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 908
Location: Toulouse
Joined: 01/11/03
Gender: Male
Re: C00 : Chigorin 2. Qe2 e5
Reply #12 - 06/23/12 at 17:34:20
Post Tools
1.e4 e6 2.Qe2 e5 3.Nf3 (White can plays various moves , for the king kambit..or even 3.Qh5 Smiley ) Nf6 

and now

A) 4.c3 (the idea of the pawn move is not to forbid Nd4 but a start of plan vs Bc5) Nf6 (maybe the move active move  ; 4..d6 5.d4 Nf6 6.dxe5 dxe5  transposes to 4..Nf6 ;  4..d5 5.d4!? ; 4...Bc5 5.Nxe5! Nxe5 6.d4 Bd6 7.dxe5 Bxe5 8.Na3) 5.d4 (5.d3 d5 ; 5.g3 d5 and White opening was not a success) exd4

B) 4.g3 Bc5 (4...Nf6 and now 5.Bg2 Bc5 transposes or 5.c3 d5 6.d3 Bd6) 5.Bg2 Nf6 6.d3 (6.c3 oo 7.Nxe5? Nxe5 8.d4 d5!) oo 7.oo Bb6

« Last Edit: 06/25/12 at 18:59:19 by dom »  
“Learn from the mistakes of others. You can never live long enough to make them all yourself.”  - Groucho Marx
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Smyslov_Fan
YaBB Moderator
Correspondence fan
*****
Offline


Progress depends on the
unreasonable man. ~GBS

Posts: 6902
Joined: 06/15/05
Re: C00 : Chigorin 2. Qe2 e5
Reply #11 - 06/23/12 at 14:09:44
Post Tools
I didn't mean any disrespect, Stefan. 

Please explain why 3.Qe3 is objectively better than the three main choices for white, 3.Nf3,  3.f4, and 3.g3.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Stefan Buecker
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 1386
Location: Germany
Joined: 02/11/09
Gender: Male
Re: C00 : Chigorin 2. Qe2 e5
Reply #10 - 06/23/12 at 11:09:35
Post Tools
Smyslov_Fan wrote on 06/23/12 at 05:58:19:
Stefan Buecker's 3.Qe3 is quite baroque and amusing. But I don't really see the point beyond freeing the B on f1. In which case, postponing Qe3 makes sense to me.

As far as I remember, the point was that 3.Qe3 was stronger than the alternatives.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Smyslov_Fan
YaBB Moderator
Correspondence fan
*****
Offline


Progress depends on the
unreasonable man. ~GBS

Posts: 6902
Joined: 06/15/05
Re: C00 : Chigorin 2. Qe2 e5
Reply #9 - 06/23/12 at 05:58:19
Post Tools
Psakhis made the same point preferring 2...c5 to 2...e5 for French players. But since the question is about 2...e5, I do like transposing to a King's Gambit with 3.f4!? 

How many French players would really feel comfortable facing the King's Gambit in a timed game?  If it's a correspondence game, the value of 3.f4 loses some of its punch, but it is still at least marginally playable.

Stefan Buecker's 3.Qe3 is quite baroque and amusing. But I don't really see the point beyond freeing the B on f1. In which case, postponing Qe3 makes sense to me.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Hadron
Full Member
***
Offline


Doctor, Doctor, Doctor..When
will you ever learn?

Posts: 195
Location: Levin, New Zealand.
Joined: 03/24/05
Gender: Male
Re: C00 : Chigorin 2. Qe2 e5
Reply #8 - 06/22/12 at 23:14:51
Post Tools
parisestmagique wrote on 06/22/12 at 14:56:37:
For me the annoying answer to 1.e4 e6  2.Qe2 is c5!
after 3.g3 Nc6 4.Nf3 g6 5.Bg2 Bg7 6.0-0 Nge7 7.d3 0-0 the Queen is not well placed on e2 because White can't play d4 and can't play a Black square attack with Qd2 Bh6 etc...

I think you have struck upon a very good point, just how many people who are willing to play 2...e6 with all its dower possibilities would also be willing to lose a tempo by playing 3...e5 as well? After all if one is going to play 2.Qe2, one is not really intending the most dynamic chess there is..!?
HTH
Shocked
  
I'm reminded again of something Short wrote recently, approximately "The biggest fallacy in chess is the quasi-religious belief in the primacy of the opening."
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
parisestmagique
Senior Member
****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 473
Location: paris
Joined: 01/24/06
Gender: Male
Re: C00 : Chigorin 2. Qe2 e5
Reply #7 - 06/22/12 at 14:56:37
Post Tools
For me the annoying answer to 1.e4 e6  2.Qe2 is c5!
after 3.g3 Nc6 4.Nf3 g6 5.Bg2 Bg7 6.0-0 Nge7 7.d3 0-0 the Queen is not well placed on e2 because White can't play d4 and can't play a Black square attack with Qd2 Bh6 etc...
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Hadron
Full Member
***
Offline


Doctor, Doctor, Doctor..When
will you ever learn?

Posts: 195
Location: Levin, New Zealand.
Joined: 03/24/05
Gender: Male
Re: C00 : Chigorin 2. Qe2 e5
Reply #6 - 06/21/12 at 04:12:04
Post Tools
George Jempty wrote on 05/01/12 at 16:28:02:
I've seen a couple of threads on here that bring up responding to Tchigorin's 2. Qe2 vs. the French with 2...e5.  In both of those threads I see that IM Stefan Buecker has recommended 3. Qe3.

If one wants to abuse one's Queen can I suggest 1.e4 e6 2.Qe2 e5 3.f4! exf4 4.Qf3! or you can attempt to play the Carrera (Basman) variation of the King's Gambit with an extra tempo with 4.d4!?
HTH
Cool
  
I'm reminded again of something Short wrote recently, approximately "The biggest fallacy in chess is the quasi-religious belief in the primacy of the opening."
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Willempie
God Member
*****
Offline


I love ChessPublishing
.com!

Posts: 4312
Location: Holland
Joined: 01/07/05
Re: Tchigorin 2. Qe2 e5
Reply #5 - 05/04/12 at 07:12:50
Post Tools
George Jempty wrote on 05/03/12 at 23:55:19:
Looks like we'll have to agree to disagree but I think this demonstrates that, despite being a very Spanish-like position, you have to do some thinking on your own, instead of just following book theory.  Might actually sharpen your Spanish opening if you play that.

Well I like it better for white than the stuff I got against me (d3 and g3). Still despite the huge amount of books, most Frenchies are not that booked up, relatively speaking.
  
If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 
Topic Tools
‹ Previous Topic | Next Topic ›
Bookmarks: del.icio.us Digg Facebook Google Google+ Linked in reddit StumbleUpon Twitter Yahoo
 
  « Board Index ‹ Board Top  

ChessPub Forum » Powered by YaBB 2.6.12!
YaBB Forum Software © 2000-2026. All Rights Reserved.

Valid RSS Valid XHTML Valid CSS Powered by Perl Source Forge