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Normal Topic C18: 7.h4 Winawer as White: move orders (6...Qc7) (Read 5624 times)
MNb
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Re: C18: 7.h4 Winawer as White: move orders (6...Qc7)
Reply #6 - 05/25/12 at 13:13:52
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blueguitar322 wrote on 05/24/12 at 12:23:17:
(c) 7.Qg4, anticipating 7...f5 which doesn't bother me too much, but then after 7...Ne7 what other option do I have except learning the entire poisoned pawn complex after 8.Qxg7?

A reasonable option is Geller's 6...Qc7 7.Qg4 Ne7 8.Bd3. In fact this is the only way to play Geller's variation as 6...Ne7 7.Qg4 cxd4 8.Bd3 Qa5 is good for White.
  

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Re: C18: 7.h4 Winawer as White: move orders (6...Qc7)
Reply #5 - 05/24/12 at 20:09:25
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I will try to answer accurately to initial post about "How can play White vs 6...Qc7? "

I believe that "6...Ne7" is not on the menu, but it is only my translating of the "tricky play" : Qc7 is only the "old line" with one plan for Black to counter the main threat of Qg4 by playing f5.  See: Tal-Botvinnik, Moscou 1960 and Short's book about the French for more details.

Watson assessed 7.h4 as "too much" for White, and the punishment can be the line given with 7...cd4!? (an offbeat gambit of the d4 pawn, without concrete "attacking" lines giving rhe initiative...many White players will be happy not to worry anymore about how to defend d4 pawn...but one pawn less gives advantage to Black in long run)

If Black plays simply plays 7...Ne7 then position is in my pov, clearly dubious White, with 8.Nf3 and 7.h4: one of these moves can give one tempo, especially if Black engineers long castle. That's why White tried the offbeat 8.Rh3 in game Markovic-Drasko,Yougoslavie 1997 (Jovicic)  but with a later Qg4 attacking g7 (White cannot resist to attack a real weakness)

My best line for Black: 7.Nf3 Ne7 8.h4 (Svilder-Shaked,Tilburg 1997) b6 specific plan of trading the light square bishop. Compare with the line 7.Nf3 h6 (F Ljubicic vs V Dimitrov, 2001) 8.a4 Ne7 9.Bb5+
Bd7 10.Be2 +=


  

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Re: C18: 7.h4 Winawer as White: move orders (6...Qc7)
Reply #4 - 05/24/12 at 17:59:52
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Pretty much what MartinC said.

Also 6...Qa5 (another major third move) 7 Bd2 Qa4 8 h4!? ends up in the same gambit position after 8...cxd4 9 cxd4 Qxd4.
  
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Re: C18: 7.h4 Winawer as White: move orders (6...Qc7)
Reply #3 - 05/24/12 at 15:04:00
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Yes, those are the opening moves - main line Winawer.  I edited the original post.
  
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Re: 7.h4 Winawer as White and move orders (6...Qc7)
Reply #2 - 05/24/12 at 14:00:52
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As usual, please supply all the initial moves of the opening when starting a thread.

I am guessing that these are the moves in question:





1. e4 e6 2. d4 d5 3. Nc3 Bb4 4. e5 c5 5. a3 Bxc3+ 6. bxc3 Qc7 7. h4


  
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MartinC
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Re: 7.h4 Winawer as White and move orders (6...Qc7)
Reply #1 - 05/24/12 at 13:13:19
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Isn't the stuff after 7 h4 and Qc3+ basically a transposition to the gambit lines after 6 .. Ne7 7 h4 then Qa5/Qa4 x d4 etc?

Definetly similar sort of play, but maybe some subtle difference in there.
  
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blueguitar322
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C18: 7.h4 Winawer as White: move orders (6...Qc7)
05/24/12 at 12:23:17
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Looking for some help with my repertoire vs. the French as White.  I've been trying to play 6...Ne7 7.h4 for a little while, but 6...Qc7 is a tricky move order.

1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 Bb4 4.e5 c5 5.a3 Bxc3 6.bxc3 Qc7
...and now here's my options:
(a) 7.h4 cxd4 8.cxd4 Qc3+ 9.Bd2 Qxd4 10.Nf3 Qe4 11.Be3 Ne7 12.Bd3 and Moshalenko gives "with compensation"
(b) Is 7.Nf3 then 8.h4 possible?  After Nf3, I've given up the option of Qg4, which is a pretty important strategic option. One line is 8...b6 9.h5 h6 10.a4 B16 11.Bb5+ Bxb5 12.axb5; here Moshalenko says chances are equal, but White’s score is pretty dismal and the one time I played this line, I wasn't crazy about my position.
(c) 7.Qg4, anticipating 7...f5 which doesn't bother me too much, but then after 7...Ne7 what other option do I have except learning the entire poisoned pawn complex after 8.Qxg7?

I'm still not very comfortable as White vs. the French (worst score by far) so any help would be appreciated.
« Last Edit: 05/24/12 at 15:05:30 by blueguitar322 »  
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