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Spanish Exchange Fishing Pole Deferred (Read 7808 times)

George Jempty Senior Member Offline Participant 1996 US Corres. Champ. Qualifying Rd. Posts: 251 Location: Carrollton, TX Joined: 03/29/09 Gender:	Re: Spanish Exchange Fishing Pole Deferred Reply #4 - 07/13/12 at 22:57:57	Post Tools	Print Post
	TN wrote on 07/04/12 at 10:27:37: I don't see Black's idea if White plays 7.h3 h5 8.d3 Qf6 9.Be3, threatening hxg4 hxg4 Ng5 Qh6 f4. Black's idea is that, since White can't play Nbd2, when push comes to shove (for instance after 9. Be3 Bd6 10. Re1), Black will exchange on f3 with ...Bxf3, creating as many pawn weaknesses for White, if not more, than Black has (Sorry for the delayed response I was at the World Open)


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PANFR Senior Member Offline I Love ChessPublishing! Posts: 256 Location: Greece Joined: 10/31/11 Gender:	Re: Spanish Exchange Fishing Pole Deferred Reply #3 - 07/04/12 at 13:37:17	Post Tools	Print Post
	TN wrote on 07/04/12 at 10:27:37: I don't see Black's idea if White plays 7.h3 h5 8.d3 Qf6 9.Be3, threatening hxg4 hxg4 Ng5 Qh6 f4. Simply 9...Bd6, which is a standard move anyway, and white does not have f4 in your variation (although 9...Bd6 10 hg4?! hg4 11.Ng5 Qh6 12.f4 Nf6! is probably a tad stronger than 12...ef4). Computer generated or not, 6...Bg4 is certainly interesting, and quite sound. I cannot see any way for white to gain even the slightest of advantages. He should probably stick to the mainline (6.Nxe5 Qd4 7.Nf3 Qxe4 8.Ng5 Qf5 9.Nxe6 fe6) which is probably just equal, but more challenging. IMHO 5...Be6 is a good move, and rather simple to handle.
	« Last Edit: 07/04/12 at 20:58:02 by PANFR »

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TN God Member Offline Posts: 3420 Joined: 11/07/08 Gender:	Re: Spanish Exchange Fishing Pole Deferred Reply #2 - 07/04/12 at 10:27:37	Post Tools	Print Post
	I don't see Black's idea if White plays 7.h3 h5 8.d3 Qf6 9.Be3, threatening hxg4 hxg4 Ng5 Qh6 f4.

	All our dreams come true if we have the courage to pursue them.
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Hadron Full Member Offline Doctor, Doctor, Doctor..When will you ever learn? Posts: 195 Location: Levin, New Zealand. Joined: 03/24/05 Gender:	Re: Spanish Exchange Fishing Pole Deferred Reply #1 - 07/04/12 at 05:49:19	Post Tools	Print Post
	George Jempty wrote on 07/03/12 at 22:54:19: 1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 a6 4. Bxc6 dxc6 5. 0-0 Be6 My trusty old 1981 edition of ECO doesn't not even mention this move which is, perhaps, not much of issue in regards to its validity. I do note however from a quick peruse of Chessbase.com, that statisically the numbers for this move are not the best (and again, this is not a real indication in regards to validity) George Jempty wrote on 07/03/12 at 22:54:19: (rather than 6. Nxe5 or the numerous alternatives) and now 6...Bg4!? losing a tempo; however after 7. h3 h5 and White does not have Nbd2. The engine evaluates this line as very very close to equal and therefore better for Black than the comparable line beginning 5...Bg4 which it still holds as being slightly better for White, as does theory AFAIK. I don't know whether Alapin's Gambit (that is, h5 after h3 in the Exchange Lopez...Fishing Pole??) is any better or any worse with a diliberate sac of a tempi as I rarely play a6 so you might have something to publish with (Although, like what Jack Young actually refers to the Fishing Pole, Alapins h5 idea does have the appearence of such a singular idea which the afore mention trust old ECO gives as a slight advantage to White) George Jempty wrote on 07/03/12 at 22:54:19: If correct then ..... And that is perhaps the kicker, if it is correct. I would not trust any sort of evaulation out of the opening that any of the modern binary demons give. I used to have a hard drive packed with both free and commerical chess engines and the only thing they where consist with was be inconsistant by disagreeing with each other....Fritz like this, Nimzo like that and Rybkka liked something else...They are good for checking ideas but the only real test is the having someone across from you while under the thumb of the clock. Never the less, any interesting post and I wish you well with your explorations. Hadron

	I'm reminded again of something Short wrote recently, approximately "The biggest fallacy in chess is the quasi-religious belief in the primacy of the opening."
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George Jempty Senior Member Offline Participant 1996 US Corres. Champ. Qualifying Rd. Posts: 251 Location: Carrollton, TX Joined: 03/29/09 Gender:	Spanish Exchange Fishing Pole Deferred 07/03/12 at 22:54:19	Post Tools	Print Post
	Running my engine while looking at games in the 5...Be6 variation that has gotten played lately by Carlsen, Caruana and Gajewski I noticed the engine briefly had considered the following: 1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 a6 4. Bxc6 dxc6 5. 0-0 Be6 6. Nc3 (rather than 6. Nxe5 or the numerous alternatives) and now 6...Bg4!? losing a tempo; however after 7. h3 h5 and White does not have Nbd2. The engine evaluates this line as very very close to equal and therefore better for Black than the comparable line beginning 5...Bg4 which it still holds as being slightly better for White, as does theory AFAIK. If correct then 6. Nc3 deserves a ?! as a response to 5...Be6, which then becomes a more and more attractive 5th move alternative for Black, as fewer and fewer 6th move responses promise White an advantage.


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