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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) C25: The Everlasting Fyfe Gambit (Read 199535 times)
Hadron
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Re: C25: The Everlasting Fyfe Gambit
Reply #204 - 09/24/12 at 08:27:33
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Markovich wrote on 09/24/12 at 03:02:27:
Chess is a very simple game, Brent Larsen was a great chess player, and the d-pawn may be sacrificed with impunity in the strange world that constitutes this thread. This is the world of Wishing-Makes-It-So, where with a little computerized prestidigitation, compensation appears like magic to replace dead pawns, and common sense in chess is repeatedly shown to be a delusion. Oh, to be a Maestro in this universe of negative gravity and compensation that is always some positive multiple of the square root of -1. Wait, what's that signpost up ahead?

I think this is a good example of the complexity of the chess player and how they might perceive themselves

Smyslov_Fan wrote on 09/24/12 at 04:43:00:
Ok, time to get back on topic.
What was the topic again?

Always happy to oblige boss but I hasn’t there been several?

Alias wrote on 09/24/12 at 07:12:52:
1) It's Bent, not Brent!
2) Of course the game is complex given the number of possible positions and the difficult in evaluating them.
3) I don't think it's necessary to keep all discussions on topic and move off topic replies to a new discussion. It makes the forum less exiting.

(1)My apologies sir, you are quite right!
(2) Well, maybe yes and maybe no. Unless you have a mate or forced moves, you are always come to an opinion on with your analysis
(3) Forum rules I think…

Have a nice day
Hadron
  

I'm reminded again of something Short wrote recently, approximately "The biggest fallacy in chess is the quasi-religious belief in the primacy of the opening."
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Re: C25: The Everlasting Fyfe Gambit
Reply #203 - 09/24/12 at 07:12:52
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1) It's Bent, not Brent!
2) Of course the game is complex given the number of possible positions and the difficult in evaluating them.
3) I don't think it's necessary to keep all discussions on topic and move off topic replies to a new discussion. It makes the forum less exiting.
  

Don't check me with no lightweight stuff.
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Re: C25: The Everlasting Fyfe Gambit
Reply #202 - 09/24/12 at 04:43:00
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Ok, time to get back on topic.

What was the topic again?
  
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Re: C25: The Everlasting Fyfe Gambit
Reply #201 - 09/24/12 at 03:02:27
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Chess is a very simple game, Brent Larsen was a great chess player, and the d-pawn may be sacrificed with impunity in the strange world that constitutes this thread. This is the world of Wishing-Makes-It-So, where with a little computerized prestidigitation, compensation appears like magic to replace dead pawns, and common sense in chess is repeatedly shown to be a delusion. Oh, to be a Maestro in this universe of negative gravity and compensation that is always some positive multiple of the square root of -1. Wait, what's that signpost up ahead?
  

The Great Oz has spoken!
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Re: C25: The Everlasting Fyfe Gambit
Reply #200 - 09/23/12 at 23:53:02
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Stefan Buecker wrote on 09/21/12 at 09:25:38:
"Chess is a difficult game", said Bent Larsen. In my "Englund Gambit" I wrote that the Soller is +/-, and I still believe it is not sound. But the BDG is a different kind of animal, and we also have the "grey zone" of draw.

Maestro, with respect to you and the greatness of Brent Larsen I don't think chess is all that difficult a game. I will even go out on a limb and say that the game itself is relatively simple. The rules of the game are not all that complex. If there is any real ‘difficulty’ in playing the game, I don’t think it lies in the game itself but in the complexity of the people that play it and or are involved with it and exactly what perceptions they have in and while doing as such. After all, are 'perceptions' not the basis of opinions and doesn't chess (theory) largely move on opinons?
Hadron
  

I'm reminded again of something Short wrote recently, approximately "The biggest fallacy in chess is the quasi-religious belief in the primacy of the opening."
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Re: C25: The Everlasting Fyfe Gambit
Reply #199 - 09/23/12 at 02:52:53
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Stefan Buecker wrote on 09/21/12 at 09:25:38:
MartinC wrote on 09/20/12 at 11:00:02:
I guess the other thing to bear in mind is how low the standard for white to mantain equality is early on - is this really that much sillier than either the Smith-Morra or BDG?

True, White can afford more than Black. In the Soller Gambit, Diemer at first tried to play d7-d5, in analogy to the BDG. When he saw that pawn d5 was too vulnerable, he changed to d7-d6 in the Soller. One tempo made a big difference. Similarly, it is a key question in the Hübsch whether d4 can be successfully attacked. According to Tartakower, in the first three moves one can play everything. But eventually you have to go with d7-d6, when you are a tempo behind, or you have to play the cautious 5.Be3 instead of "active" moves like Bf4 or Bc4 in the Hübsch.  Smiley


"Chess is a difficult game", said Bent Larsen. In my "Englund Gambit" I wrote that the Soller is +/-, and I still believe it is not sound. But the BDG is a different kind of animal, and we also have the "grey zone" of draw.



And this damn gambit is difficult to analyse. Here is my take on it.
« Last Edit: 09/23/12 at 07:37:56 by Master Om »  
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Re: C25: The Everlasting Fyfe Gambit
Reply #198 - 09/21/12 at 09:25:38
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MartinC wrote on 09/20/12 at 11:00:02:
I guess the other thing to bear in mind is how low the standard for white to mantain equality is early on - is this really that much sillier than either the Smith-Morra or BDG?

True, White can afford more than Black. In the Soller Gambit, Diemer at first tried to play d7-d5, in analogy to the BDG. When he saw that pawn d5 was too vulnerable, he changed to d7-d6 in the Soller. One tempo made a big difference. Similarly, it is a key question in the Hübsch whether d4 can be successfully attacked. According to Tartakower, in the first three moves one can play everything. But eventually you have to go with d7-d6, when you are a tempo behind, or you have to play the cautious 5.Be3 instead of "active" moves like Bf4 or Bc4 in the Hübsch.  Smiley


"Chess is a difficult game", said Bent Larsen. In my "Englund Gambit" I wrote that the Soller is +/-, and I still believe it is not sound. But the BDG is a different kind of animal, and we also have the "grey zone" of draw.
  
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Re: C25: The Everlasting Fyfe Gambit
Reply #197 - 09/20/12 at 11:00:02
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I guess the other thing to bear in mind is how low the standard for white to mantain equality is early on - is this really that much sillier than either the Smith-Morra or BDG?
  
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Re: C25: The Everlasting Fyfe Gambit
Reply #196 - 09/20/12 at 09:20:36
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Stefan Buecker wrote on 09/20/12 at 08:05:56:
Bibs wrote on 09/17/12 at 11:52:19:
But no idea about your Hans Haberditz.
....
In 1955 Hans Haberditz invented 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Bg5 Ne4 4.Bf4 e5!.   Shocked

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Yeah, great find btw!  Cheesy
Even Jaan Ehlvest played it once (against Rivas Pastor in 1991) in a classic game. My notes about it:



Sorry for the off-topic!  Embarrassed
  
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Re: C25: The Everlasting Fyfe Gambit
Reply #195 - 09/20/12 at 08:40:45
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Thank you for this explanations. I did follow the lines of this topic and played a little bit around with further moves. The effect was astonishment why this came always to lines near equality.

Clearly being between two or three standard deviations beyond gm level I always thought this reflects only my lack of technique (which is still the most important factor imo). But you gave a positional explanation to rework on some lines.  Smiley
  

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Re: C25: The Everlasting Fyfe Gambit
Reply #194 - 09/20/12 at 08:05:56
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Bibs wrote on 09/17/12 at 11:52:19:
But no idea about your Hans Haberditz.

Renowned Austrian analyst of an era when Vienna was one of the centers of opening research: Ernst Grünfeld, Hans Kmoch, Hans Müller, Albert Becker. Haberditz published his ideas from the late 1940s until his death in 1957. There is a "Haberditz Variation" in the French and another in the Sicilian. He is said to be the first to study what became the "Vienna Variation", which can arise via the Nimzo Indian or the Queen's Gambit (though databases have sporadic earlier games). - The Oxford Companion to Chess has lots of facts about the history of chess. A great and entertaining book, warmly recommended.

The Fyfe belongs to a rare subset of gambits: those where the pawn is taken by a piece, instead of a pawn. With the result that the pawn structure remains "mostly intact", the gambiteer has an open file. Like 1.g4 d5 2.Bg2, but then the g-file isn't essential for White. Studying cases like the Fyfe is of interest since it gives a clue about the value of an open file. It comes close, by the way, to the experience of giving odds of "pawn and move", popular around 1840. Staunton once offered "pawn and move" to a lesser master. The offer was rejected, because "he wasn't sure whether the open f-file wasn't an advantage rather than a handicap for Black".  Cheesy

In 1955 Hans Haberditz invented 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Bg5 Ne4 4.Bf4 e5!.   Shocked

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Re: C25: The Everlasting Fyfe Gambit
Reply #193 - 09/18/12 at 11:46:49
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Stefan Buecker wrote on 09/18/12 at 07:59:49:
Master Om wrote on 09/18/12 at 00:55:18:
Stefan Buecker wrote on 09/17/12 at 19:04:56:
Hello Master Om,
now I am very curious: what is the best continuation?

I need one more day to give u the complete analysis.

Thanks. I am looking forward to your contribution. The Fyfe Gambit remains the main topic of this thread.

Less relevant, but the Bulgarian Ouch can give us some hints. Meta-theory isn't the real thing - "Die Variante triumphiert" [The variation triumphs], as Alapin put it. But it can help to consider general rules and concepts. One of these is Tarrasch's "three tempi are worth a pawn". The exchange on f6 costs White time - approximately one tempo, if you can accept that castling long is a good idea for Black. What else? To which extent does Black profit from g2-g3 in an attack on opposite flanks? Could it be worth one tempo or rather two?

Actually my line of reasoning was meant to go like this: the move g2-g3 is a welcome gift for Black, the Bulgarian Ouch would be unplayable without this concession. However, in the Fyfe Gambit, without g7-g6, the whole concept looks more dubious. White has an extra tempo, because he is White, but I guess that the omission of g7-g6 weighs more than that.

I have called Bibs "elliptical", because his posts practice ellipsis, the art of omission. But what I admire in writing style, is less admirable in chess analysis: jumping to premature conclusions.



Hello Mr Buecker.
                        I have started my anlaysis from the position I posted above. The last time I posted I was criticized heavily but I don't mind as it brings out the truth.
I will hence post again. Lets see the response.

But got to admit that this gambit is very versatile. Lots of varieties of moves and one wrong move white gains advantage. My analysis is almost ready. Tomorrow is Ganesh Puja and I will post tomorrow.
  
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Re: C25: The Everlasting Fyfe Gambit
Reply #192 - 09/18/12 at 07:59:49
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Master Om wrote on 09/18/12 at 00:55:18:
Stefan Buecker wrote on 09/17/12 at 19:04:56:
Hello Master Om,
now I am very curious: what is the best continuation?

I need one more day to give u the complete analysis.

Thanks. I am looking forward to your contribution. The Fyfe Gambit remains the main topic of this thread.

Less relevant, but the Bulgarian Ouch can give us some hints. Meta-theory isn't the real thing - "Die Variante triumphiert" [The variation triumphs], as Alapin put it. But it can help to consider general rules and concepts. One of these is Tarrasch's "three tempi are worth a pawn". The exchange on f6 costs White time - approximately one tempo, if you can accept that castling long is a good idea for Black. What else? To which extent does Black profit from g2-g3 in an attack on opposite flanks? Could it be worth one tempo or rather two?

Actually my line of reasoning was meant to go like this: the move g2-g3 is a welcome gift for Black, the Bulgarian Ouch would be unplayable without this concession. However, in the Fyfe Gambit, without g7-g6, the whole concept looks more dubious. White has an extra tempo, because he is White, but I guess that the omission of g7-g6 weighs more than that.

I have called Bibs "elliptical", because his posts practice ellipsis, the art of omission. But what I admire in writing style, is less admirable in chess analysis: jumping to premature conclusions.
  
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Re: C25: The Everlasting Fyfe Gambit
Reply #191 - 09/18/12 at 00:55:18
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Stefan Buecker wrote on 09/17/12 at 19:04:56:
Hello Master Om,
now I am very curious: what is the best continuation?



I need one more day to give u the complete analysis.
  
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Re: C25: The Everlasting Fyfe Gambit
Reply #190 - 09/17/12 at 19:04:56
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Hello Master Om,
now I am very curious: what is the best continuation?
  
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