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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) C25: The Everlasting Fyfe Gambit (Read 124399 times)
Stefan Buecker
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Re: C25: Fyfe Gambit (The Everlasting Thread)
Reply #24 - 07/09/12 at 11:44:54
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Everybody uses the computer, so let's see some PC-generated lines, with minor ingredients of my own analog reasoning. Roll Eyes



The Fyfe Gambit may be incorrect or not, I don't know. There are the Nimzowitsches, who think that certain moves are not worth debating, and the Alapins, who need concrete analysis. True: Nimzowitsch, with his limited focus, was stronger over the board.
  
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Markovich
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Re: C25: Fyfe Gambit (The Everlasting Thread)
Reply #23 - 07/09/12 at 03:17:43
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Hadron, you said that ALL contributions to this thread, not just mine, seemed to be uncritically accepted computer analysis. How do you justify that?

But as to my 5...d5, any thoughts of your own about it? I have some variations, but I've been waiting for any sort of reaction before sharing them. Your thoughts?
  

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Hadron
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Re: C25: Fyfe Gambit (The Everlasting Thread)
Reply #22 - 07/08/12 at 22:11:55
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Markovich wrote on 07/08/12 at 15:18:05:
Having invited conversation on this gambit.

My threads on this are closed. Mr Buecker is the threads owner.
Markovich wrote on 07/08/12 at 15:18:05:
I would have thought that your addressing the ideas put forward would have taken precedence over sweepingly dismissing them.

I said the engines dismissed it not me.
Markovich wrote on 07/08/12 at 15:18:05:
The immediate retreat of the d4 Knight is weak after both 4.Nf3 and 4.f4, by the way

Well, you are entitled to your opinion.
Hadron.
  

I'm reminded again of something Short wrote recently, approximately "The biggest fallacy in chess is the quasi-religious belief in the primacy of the opening."
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Re: C25: Fyfe Gambit (The Everlasting Thread)
Reply #21 - 07/08/12 at 19:23:12
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Edited:
Moderator's Note: Please stay on topic. Personal attacks will not be tolerated.
~SF July 8th, 2012.
  
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Markovich
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Re: C25: Fyfe Gambit (The Everlasting Thread)
Reply #20 - 07/08/12 at 15:18:05
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Anyway, Hadron, 5...d5 is a very interesting and, I believe, original move. Having invited conversation on this gambit, I would have thought that your addressing the ideas put forward would have taken precedence over sweepingly dismissing them.

The immediate retreat of the d4 Knight is weak after both 4.Nf3 and 4.f4, by the way.
  

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Markovich
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Re: C25: Fyfe Gambit (The Everlasting Thread)
Reply #19 - 07/08/12 at 15:04:11
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...
As for 5...d5, it did indeed spring from my thinking. I am quite surprised to discover that machines recommend it. Here on vacation, I am using Shredder running on a Samsung Galaxy Tab, a very weak machine. But in any case, it does not recommend the move in question.





Edited:
Edited to remove references to a post that was deleted. ~SF July 8, 2012.
« Last Edit: 07/08/12 at 19:24:36 by Smyslov_Fan »  

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Stefan Buecker
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Re: C25: Fyfe Gambit (The Everlasting Thread)
Reply #18 - 07/08/12 at 12:13:01
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Markovich wrote on 07/08/12 at 11:38:23:
@All: I'm surprised that nobody has reacted to my proposal of 4...d5 in reply to 4.f4,. And say, Hadron, does that idea look like computer chess to you?

My computer is still working on it. Grin

I'll reply to all proposals. Smyslov-Fan's idea hit a nerve: Black postpones Nf6, keeps castling options and lures for dirty and opportunistic moves, like h5-h4. But human opponents would rather follow a clean strategy, I suppose.
  
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Re: C25: Fyfe Gambit (The Everlasting Thread)
Reply #17 - 07/08/12 at 11:38:23
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Stefan, I don't think that Black has any problem castling kingside under the "threat" of g4, g5 and so forth if he stays active enough.

@All: I'm surprised that nobody has reacted to my proposal of 4...d5 in reply to 4.f4,. And say, Hadron, does that idea look like computer chess to you?
  

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Re: C25: Fyfe Gambit (The Everlasting Thread)
Reply #16 - 07/08/12 at 10:05:17
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1. e4 e5 2. Nc3 Nc6 3. d4 Nxd4 4. Nf3 (4. f4 d5) 4... Nxf3+ 5. Qxf3 Nf6 6. Bc4
(6. g4 d5 7. Nxd5 Nxd5 8. exd5 Bc5) 6... d6 7. Qg3 Be6

and Black is fine in all lines.
  

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Re: C25: Fyfe Gambit (The Everlasting Thread)
Reply #15 - 07/08/12 at 09:38:11
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The following game was "played in the Fyfe Gambit Tournament at Glasgow, and awarded half the brilliancy prize," says The Times Literary Supplement, April 19th, 1917, p. 192. We cannot criticize a brilliancy prize game, or can we?

  
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Re: C25: Fyfe Gambit (The Everlasting Thread)
Reply #14 - 07/08/12 at 02:55:10
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Stefan Buecker wrote on 07/07/12 at 13:33:53:
Hadron, you are a stalwart of human thinking. The engines are limited, yes. After 1.e4 e5 2.Nc3 Nc6 3.d4 Nxd4 4.Nf3 Nc6 5.Bc4, what can Black play? Perhaps 5...h6 6.Qd5 Qe7 7.Qd3, White is three tempi ahead. According to Tarrasch, three tempi are worth a pawn - no engine needed here.

Maestro I am sure you are right about the tempi thing. As for whats next 5...h6 6.Qd5 Qe7 7.Qd3 looks good. Maybe 7Nf6 to lay some control of d5 and then look to exchange off pieces to try and exploit the extra pawn. If 8.0-0 my weakness would be play 8g5 rather than lose another tempo moving ones queen off e7 simply to free up Bishop f8. If then say 9.Nd5 (maybe 9.Be3 but I like 9Bg7 intending d6, 0-0 and a6 depending on Whites moves) then 9Nxd5 and play for the aforementioned exchanges with 10.exd5 Na5 11.Re1 Nxc4 12.Qxc4 d6 and so on. Is there a pawns worth there?
Thanks
Hadron
Wink
« Last Edit: 07/08/12 at 21:34:55 by Hadron »  

I'm reminded again of something Short wrote recently, approximately "The biggest fallacy in chess is the quasi-religious belief in the primacy of the opening."
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Re: C25: Fyfe Gambit (The Everlasting Thread)
Reply #13 - 07/07/12 at 15:27:05
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PANFR wrote on 07/07/12 at 13:18:09:
I'm sorry, but only people with single-digit IQ would need an engine to evaluate this crap.

Only warning, stay on the topic of the thread and CONTRIBUTE to the thread or say nothing. I will delete further off topic posts.
  
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Re: C25: Fyfe Gambit (The Everlasting Thread)
Reply #12 - 07/07/12 at 13:44:25
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Stefan Buecker wrote on 07/07/12 at 13:33:53:
So  Really, where is Black's counterplay?


Apparently, much closer than white's compensation...  Grin
  
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Re: C25: Fyfe Gambit (The Everlasting Thread)
Reply #11 - 07/07/12 at 13:33:53
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So many heretics here, me included! Shouldn't we trust the genius of Fyfe? He was a recognized expert in his field, and a respected chess player as well, almost as strong as Sheriff Spens, mastermind from Glasgow. Fyfe analyzed without an engine. But before I fall back to his ingenious 4.f4 (could my line be wrong?), another look at 4.Nf3.

Hadron, you are a stalwart of human thinking. The engines are limited, yes. After 1.e4 e5 2.Nc3 Nc6 3.d4 Nxd4 4.Nf3 Nc6 5.Bc4, what can Black play? Perhaps 5...h6 6.Qd5 Qe7 7.Qd3, White is three tempi ahead. According to Tarrasch, three tempi are worth a pawn - no engine needed here.

Smyslov-Fan, your sample game leaves me speechless. I guess it needs a Fyfe Gambit with a brilliancy prize to outbalance it. But for the moment, the following game (also U14) will suffice. I think that kylemeister is basically right that the position with Qg3 hasn't enough bite. So White's goal should really be the expansion with g2-g4-g5, to gain space and prevent Black from castling short. Next, he must outplay Black, due to his pressure on the d-file and his activity. Really, where is Black's counterplay?


  
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Re: C25: Fyfe Gambit (The Everlasting Thread)
Reply #10 - 07/07/12 at 02:04:24
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Hadron wrote on 07/07/12 at 00:08:03:
I think this thread so far is much like the thread "C58: New try main line Two Knights Defense" in that most people seem to be largely plugging moves in to a chess engine and giving an opinion based upon what the binary demon spits out


??
  

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