Latest Updates:
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 ... 15 16 [17] 
Topic Tools
Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) C25: The Everlasting Fyfe Gambit (Read 126989 times)
Hadron
Full Member
***
Offline


Doctor, Doctor, Doctor..When
will you ever learn?

Posts: 195
Location: Levin, New Zealand.
Joined: 03/24/05
Gender: Male
Re: C25: Fyfe Gambit (The Everlasting Thread)
Reply #9 - 07/07/12 at 00:08:03
Post Tools
I think this thread so far is much like the thread "C58: New try main line Two Knights Defense" in that most people seem to be largely plugging moves in to a chess engine and giving an opinion based upon what the binary demon spits out (I don't know if this is a good or a bad thing)
When I first looked at the original analysis over on googlebooks, my first thought was that 4.f4 (in answer to 3...Nxd4) seem to be a terrible weakness that, perhaps, might have been sustainable for players of that day which is why 4.Nf3 looked a considerable improvement only in comparison. Thing is though everyone is solely concentrating on 4.Nf3 Nxf3 has been largely forced when it is not. Even the original analysis is more thorough in that it examines 3...Nxd4 4.f4 Nc6 so why doesn't this apply to 4.Nf3 Nc6.? I think the purpose with Nc6 is to withdraw the knight, shore up the defences and make white prove his pawns worth of initiative...and as most lower to middle strength players are now a days seemingly (there is that word again) preprogrammed to decline unknown gambit ideas, 4.Nf3 Nc6 should be considered an opition...however in mentioning declining 4.Nf3, there is the consideration of precise move orders:
[Site "chess.net"]
[Date "2012.07.06"]
[White (me) "Mr.Wink"]
[Black "Battle_of_minds"]
1. e4 e5 2. Nc3 Nc6 3. d4 Nxd4 4. Nf3 Nc6 5. Bc4 Be7?? 6. Qd5 Nh6?? 7. Bxh6 O-O 8.Be3 d6 9. Qd2 Kh8 10. Nd5 f5 11. Nxe7 Qxe7 (+--) and eventually I drove a winning position into equal one into a lost one with 12. O-O-O?? f4!
but that had more to do with the 9% Barvarian lager I was drinking at the time
Hadron
Smiley
  

I'm reminded again of something Short wrote recently, approximately "The biggest fallacy in chess is the quasi-religious belief in the primacy of the opening."
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
kylemeister
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 4558
Location: USA
Joined: 10/24/05
Re: C25: Fyfe Gambit (The Everlasting Thread)
Reply #8 - 07/06/12 at 16:49:29
Post Tools
On 4. Nf3 Nxf3+ 5. Qxf3 Nf6 6. Qg3 d6 7. Be2, just 7...Be7 (which also acts against the possibility of 8. f4) looks fine, no?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Markovich
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 6099
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Joined: 09/17/04
Re: C25: Fyfe Gambit (The Everlasting Thread)
Reply #7 - 07/06/12 at 13:40:06
Post Tools
After 4.f4 Black can play in Falkbeer fashion with 4...d5!
  

The Great Oz has spoken!
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Smyslov_Fan
YaBB Moderator
Correspondence fan
*****
Offline


Progress depends on the
unreasonable man. ~GBS

Posts: 6902
Joined: 06/15/05
Re: C25: Fyfe Gambit (The Everlasting Thread)
Reply #6 - 07/06/12 at 13:12:43
Post Tools
My computer came up with the following amusing line:

1.e4 e5 2.Nc3 Nc6 3.d4? Nxd4 4.Nf3 Nxf3 5.Qxf3 c6! (I like this idea, but I'm not so convinced of the following moves.) 6.Qg3 d6 7.Bc4 b5 8.Be2 h5.

All these pawn moves make me queasy, but I really don't see how white will take advantage of the situation. Perhaps 9.f4 h4! (continuing the theme) 10.Qd3 h3!! And Black's pieceless attack begins to develop teeth.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Markovich
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 6099
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Joined: 09/17/04
Re: C25: Fyfe Gambit (The Everlasting Thread)
Reply #5 - 07/06/12 at 13:02:20
Post Tools
Further, after 5.Qxf3 Nf6 6.Bc4, Black can consider 6...Be7. It appears to me that 7.Qg3 0-0 8.Qxe5 Re8 is unattractive for White. Nor does 8.Bh6 Ne8 look especially appealing; if 9.h4 Kh8 10.Bd2 Nd6 and soon ...f5, or 9.Be3 d6 and Black appears to be quite fine.
  

The Great Oz has spoken!
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Smyslov_Fan
YaBB Moderator
Correspondence fan
*****
Offline


Progress depends on the
unreasonable man. ~GBS

Posts: 6902
Joined: 06/15/05
Re: C25: Fyfe Gambit (The Everlasting Thread)
Reply #4 - 07/06/12 at 13:02:02
Post Tools
I found the following incredible game. It's incredible because I've never seen a game where a player rated +1400 points higher than his or her opponent lose in a tournament setting. This includes games between two juniors, as in this case!


[Event "Schleswig Holstein-chB U14"]
[Site "Neumuenster"]
[Date "2000.04.15"]
[Round "1"]
[White "Mueller, Sebastian"]
[Black "Fachri, Hormoz"]
[Result "0-1"]
[ECO "C25"]
[WhiteElo "2305"]
[BlackElo "824"]
[PlyCount "28"]
[EventDate "2000.04.??"]
[EventType "swiss"]
[EventRounds "9"]
[EventCountry "GER"]
[Source "ChessBase"]
[SourceDate "2002.11.25"]

1. e4 e5 2. Nc3 Nc6 3. d4 Nxd4 4. Nf3 Nc6 5. Bg5 Be7 6. h4 d6 7. Bb5 Bg4 8. Be2
Bxf3 9. gxf3 Bxg5 10. hxg5 Qxg5 11. f4 Qxf4 12. Bg4 Nf6 13. Nd5 Qxe4+ 14. Qe2
Qxh1+ 0-1

Ok, it may not be terribly interesting from a theoretical perspective, but still.  Shocked


  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Stefan Buecker
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 1382
Location: Germany
Joined: 02/11/09
Gender: Male
Re: C25: Fyfe Gambit (The Everlasting Thread)
Reply #3 - 07/06/12 at 10:45:51
Post Tools
kylemeister wrote on 07/04/12 at 18:45:58:
I suppose a plausible possibility is 4. Nf3 Nxf3+ 5. Qxf3 Nf6 6. Bc4 d6 (a Four Knights line which has been given as equal with White's d-pawn still on the board).

Wouldn't 6.g4 be unpleasant? I mean, with Black's suffering from the half-open d-file, he can hardly hit back in the center with d5.

On second thought, this argument is limited, because Black can play 5...d6, practically forcing a position like 5...Nf6 6.Qg3 d6 7.Be2. Would this be worth a pawn?

In Fyfe's original treatment 4.f4 Bb4 5.Nf3 Bxc3+ 6.bxc3 Nxf3+ 7.Qxf3 (this actually comes from a consultation game in 1883), what I didn't like was 7...Qh4+ 8.g3 Qf6 (or maybe 8...Qe7).   
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Markovich
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 6099
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Joined: 09/17/04
Re: C25: Fyfe Gambit (The Everlasting Thread)
Reply #2 - 07/05/12 at 01:46:51
Post Tools
I would rule out 3...exd4 as tending to transpose into a Belgrade.

What does White have for his pawn after 3...Nxd5 4.Nf3 Nxf3  5.Qxf3 Nf6? Just a little, at best. Let White's partisans come forward, the burden of proof is on them.
  

The Great Oz has spoken!
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
kylemeister
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 4558
Location: USA
Joined: 10/24/05
Re: C25: Fyfe Gambit (The Everlasting Thread)
Reply #1 - 07/04/12 at 18:45:58
Post Tools
I suppose a plausible possibility is 4. Nf3 Nxf3+ 5. Qxf3 Nf6 6. Bc4 d6 (a Four Knights line which has been given as equal with White's d-pawn still on the board).
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Stefan Buecker
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 1382
Location: Germany
Joined: 02/11/09
Gender: Male
C25: The Everlasting Fyfe Gambit
07/04/12 at 14:28:53
Post Tools
A member had asked how he could find something on the Fyfe Gambit 1. e4 e5 2. Nc3 Nc6 3. d4. A source he was able to locate at Google Books was the following: Freeborough & Ranken: Chess Openings: ancient and modern, 2nd ed. 1893, p. 227. - In my opinion 4.Nf3 is an improvement.

That member hoped to find older material, but for a gambit that was invented in 1883 a book from 1893 is reasonably old, no? 


« Last Edit: 07/18/12 at 08:59:30 by GMTonyKosten »  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 ... 15 16 [17] 
Topic Tools
Bookmarks: del.icio.us Digg Facebook Google Google+ Linked in reddit StumbleUpon Twitter Yahoo