ChessPub Forum - Current status of Morris gambit

Anonymous3 Senior Member Offline I Love ChessPublishing! Posts: 307 Joined: 08/15/08	Re: Current status of Morris gambit Reply #17 - 11/30/17 at 00:10:12	Post Tools	Print Post
	GMTonyKosten wrote on 03/29/17 at 09:28:11: MNb wrote on 03/22/17 at 01:42:38: 1.d4 d5 2.Bf4 c5 3.e4 Nc6 4.exd5 Qxd5 5.Nc3 Qxd4 6.Nd5 e5 Eric Prié liked this a lot for Black, I seem to remember. Yes, and Eric showed 4.Nc3 isn't anything for White either. I think the most interesting move is 4.c4!?. I don't think it leads to an advantage for White but it leads to more interesting play then 4.exd5 and 4.Nc3 do for White.


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Anonymous3 Senior Member Offline I Love ChessPublishing! Posts: 307 Joined: 08/15/08	Re: Current status of Morris gambit Reply #16 - 11/26/17 at 23:57:58	Post Tools	Print Post
	Dink Heckler wrote on 03/30/17 at 12:34:41: The Agile London System calls it the Morris Gambit - maybe that's where it comes from; probably a simple error. Win With the London System may have been the first to call it the Morris Gambit. That's may have been what led to it being called the Morris Gambit in other sources.


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an ordinary chessplayer

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Re: Current status of Norris gambit
Reply #15 - 10/13/17 at 01:26:02

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15. c4? (15. O-O +/-) was hardly an exact quote!

Quote:

... I expected White to continue with O-O, and I realized that I would be lucky if [sic] could complete my development and keep White's Rook out of my second rank.

15.P-B4?

This gave me an unexpected breathing spell. Very likely the move was motivated by the desire to place the King on K2 without being disturbed by a check with my white Bishop. But this stamps the move as a purely defensive one, in a position in which White's advanced development called for attacking play. Perhaps there was no way in which to increase White's advantage decisively. However, castling and placing the Rook in an open file was at least worth a try.

Walking around analyzing blindfold, I came up with 15.O-O Bc5 16.Rb1 Ne7 17.Be4, planning Rb7 next. Fritz15 then says 17...Rc8 18.Rb7 Bb5 (! typical computer move) =+ (-0.38). So in a sense you are right to say that Lasker was superficial. But the real problem was his radical misassessment of the position, which always leads to faulty candidate moves. It would have been interesting to get Norris's perspective.

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PANFR Senior Member Offline I Love ChessPublishing! Posts: 256 Location: Greece Joined: 10/31/11 Gender:	Re: Current status of Morris gambit Reply #14 - 10/10/17 at 13:35:58	Post Tools	Print Post
	Lasker's analysis in this game seems superficial- e.g. at move 15 se suggests 15.0-0 with advantage to white, while after 15...Bc5 Black is probably holding a slight advantage.


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Re: Current status of Morris gambit
Reply #13 - 10/01/17 at 03:16:20

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Found it in Edward Lasker, Modern Chess Strategy, 2nd edition (David McKay, 1950).

Quote:

The reply 3...N-QB3 is discussed in illustrative game No. 8. I played this game recently against J. H. Norris, who has analyzed the variation beginning with 3.P-K4 extensively -- I might almost say invented it. He was unaware of the fact that it had been tried in the tournament at Petersburg, 1909, without ever reappearing on the tournament scene.
(page203)

Quote:

As an example I might cite the following game which I recently played by correspondence with an old friend, and which bears quite a little resemblance to the game just discussed. The object of the game was to test the opening 1.P-Q4 P-Q4 2.B-B4 P-QB4 3.P-K4, which is hardly ever seen in tournament play although it looks very promising for White.
(page 279)

White: John H. Norris
Black: Edward Lasker
Played by correspondence in 1944

Quote:

My opponent had analyzed the opening painstakingly and had come to the conclusion that this Gambit gave White such a strong attack that it was doubtful whether Black could meet it. A search of the literature revealed that Vidmar had tried the opening against Perlis in the International Tournament of St. Petersburg in 1909. No other game has come to my attention in which this Gambit has been tested.
(page 279)

The game Norris - Lasker is in fact very interesting, particularly in the opening. See the attached PGN.

Norris-Lasker_1944.pgn ( 3 KB | 480 Downloads )

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Dink Heckler God Member Offline Love-Forty Posts: 885 Joined: 02/01/07 Gender:	Re: Current status of Morris gambit Reply #12 - 03/30/17 at 12:34:41	Post Tools	Print Post
	The Agile London System calls it the Morris Gambit - maybe that's where it comes from; probably a simple error.

	'Am I any good at tactics?' 'Computer says No!'
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GMTonyKosten YaBB Administrator Offline Mr Dynamic? Posts: 3163 Location: Clermont-Ferrand Joined: 12/19/02 Gender:	Re: Current status of Morris gambit Reply #11 - 03/29/17 at 09:28:11	Post Tools	Print Post
	MNb wrote on 03/22/17 at 01:42:38: 1.d4 d5 2.Bf4 c5 3.e4 Nc6 4.exd5 Qxd5 5.Nc3 Qxd4 6.Nd5 e5 Eric Prié liked this a lot for Black, I seem to remember.


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MNb God Member Offline Rudolf Spielmann forever Posts: 10758 Location: Moengo Joined: 01/05/04 Gender:	Re: Current status of Morris gambit Reply #10 - 03/26/17 at 16:40:23	Post Tools	Print Post
	an ordinary chessplayer wrote on 03/22/17 at 19:00:20: I also note that 6.Be3 gives away the extra tempo to reach a book colors-reversed Albin. Nice. I'd probably meet 1d4 d5 2.Bf4 c5 3.e4 e6 with the simple 4.exd5 as exd5 seems a pretty good version of the French Exchange to me. Now only meeting 1.d4 d5 2.Bf4 Nf6 3.e3 c5 and 4...Nc6 ....

	The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged. GC Lichtenberg
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an ordinary chessplayer God Member Offline I used to be not bad. Posts: 1713 Location: Columbus, OH (USA) Joined: 01/02/15	Re: Current status of Morris gambit Reply #9 - 03/22/17 at 19:00:20	Post Tools	Print Post
	@MNb Em. Lasker also recommended 3...Nc6, in the notes to Vidmar - Perlis, St. Petersburg 1909. He calls the opening "Albin's Counter Gambit for the first player". (I can't post a link, but google d4 d5 Bf4 c5 e4 in books and look for The International Chess Congress, St Petersburg, 1909). In your line after 6.Nd5, I don't understand "or Bd7". I also note that 6.Be3 gives away the extra tempo to reach a book colors-reversed Albin. @ako - The problem with cryptic evaluations of equality on move 3 is that there is still a whole chess game to play. Far better to have a scheme of development that at least gets to the early middlegame before trying to claim equality for black. I am not 100% sure of my own suggestion 3...e6!?, except to note that in the Marshall Gambit 1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 c5 4.exd5 exd5, 5.Bf4 is not the feared move.


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MNb God Member Offline Rudolf Spielmann forever Posts: 10758 Location: Moengo Joined: 01/05/04 Gender:	Re: Current status of Morris gambit Reply #8 - 03/22/17 at 01:42:38	Post Tools	Print Post
	Unfortunately, when compared to the Albin's, there is one variation in which Bf4 is a con instead of a pro. 1.d4 d5 2.Bf4 c5 3.e4 Nc6 4.exd5 Qxd5 5.Nc3 Qxd4 6.Nd5 e5 or Bd7.

	The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged. GC Lichtenberg
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Lauri Torni Senior Member Offline Si vis pacem, para bellum. Posts: 293 Location: Finland Joined: 01/09/03 Gender:	Re: Current status of Morris gambit Reply #7 - 03/21/17 at 06:06:05	Post Tools	Print Post
	saubhikr wrote on 07/15/12 at 06:03:55: Following Lakhdawala's suggestion, planning to give Morris gambit a try. Can you please let us know what is the current status of the same? 1.d4 d5 2.Bf4 c5 3.e4 There is no "current status" for such a marginal line. Just status My status is 3.-e6 =

	1.Nf3! - beat your opponent by killing his zest for life.
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fjd God Member Offline Posts: 551 Location: Ottawa Joined: 09/22/16	Re: Current status of Morris gambit Reply #6 - 03/20/17 at 23:51:55	Post Tools	Print Post
	3...dxe4 4 d5


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BobbyDigital80 Senior Member Offline I Love ChessPublishing! Posts: 355 Joined: 05/15/08 Gender:	Re: Current status of Morris gambit Reply #5 - 03/20/17 at 23:37:38	Post Tools	Print Post
	an ordinary chessplayer wrote on 03/20/17 at 21:47:42: 1. As white I used to play for this trap on occasion. Then one night in a league match my opponent actually fell into it in a big way: 4...e6? 5.Bb5+, etc. What was Black's 3rd move and White's 4th move?


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kylemeister God Member Offline Posts: 4939 Location: USA Joined: 10/24/05	Re: Current status of Morris gambit Reply #4 - 03/20/17 at 23:06:09	Post Tools	Print Post
	an ordinary chessplayer wrote on 03/20/17 at 21:47:42: 3. Why is this being called the "Morris Gambit"? In Horowitz's New Traps in the Chess Opening (1964) he called 3.e4 the "Norris Gambit". Any ideas who Morris or Norris might have been? I wondered that too, since Norris Gambit is the name I recalled, quite possibly from that Horowitz trap book. Oddly enough his big opening book of the same year (Chess Openings: Theory and Practice) had nothing to say about 1. d4 d5 2. Bf4. I see that Norris Gambit was also used in Chess Review in 1961 and by Fine in his 1948 book Practical Chess Openings.


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an ordinary chessplayer God Member Offline I used to be not bad. Posts: 1713 Location: Columbus, OH (USA) Joined: 01/02/15	Re: Current status of Morris gambit Reply #3 - 03/20/17 at 21:47:42	Post Tools	Print Post
	1. As white I used to play for this trap on occasion. Then one night in a league match my opponent actually fell into it in a big way: 4...e6? 5.Bb5+, etc. Clearly winning for me, except, I only drew. Ugh, what a nightmare. I don't have the heart to dig up the game score and present it here. I almost wanted to give up chess, but I compromised and gave up the opening. 2. Years later when I took up the Tarrasch Defense, I wanted to make 2...c5 work for black. My solution was 1.d4 d5 2.Bf4 c5 3.e4 e6!?. I think the best white can do here is give black an isolated pawn. But in this French-like IQP structure the Bf4 is simply misplaced. Not to mention mistimed. 3. Why is this being called the "Morris Gambit"? In Horowitz's New Traps in the Chess Opening (1964) he called 3.e4 the "Norris Gambit". Any ideas who Morris or Norris might have been?


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