Latest Updates:
Normal Topic QGA move-ordering? (Read 7239 times)
Smyslov_Fan
God Member
Correspondence fan
*****
Offline


Progress depends on the
unreasonable man. ~GBS

Posts: 6902
Joined: 06/15/05
Re: QGA move-ordering?
Reply #7 - 08/14/12 at 17:13:33
Post Tools
Khalifman, in OFWAK vol 4, looks at some of Black's options in a similar position.  He discusses 1.Nf3 d5 2.d4 c5 as an attempt to reach a QGA pawn structure, and does recommend 3.c4. One interesting idea is 3...a6. He shows how that can lead to positions similar to the Chebanenko Slav. If you play 1.d4 d5 2.c4 dxc4 3.Nf3 Nf6 4.e3 Bg4 5.h3 Bh5 6.Bxc4 e6 7.Nc3 a6 lines, this could definitely transpose.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
fling
God Member
*****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 1591
Joined: 01/21/11
Gender: Male
Re: QGA move-ordering?
Reply #6 - 08/14/12 at 05:41:55
Post Tools
It seemed like an early Bg4 was the idea. It might of course lead to IQP positions, and transpositions, but I thought that depends on White. Anyway, I totally agree, after 1. d4 d5 2. Nf3 Nf6 3. e3 c5, I would be happy playing Black.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Smyslov_Fan
God Member
Correspondence fan
*****
Offline


Progress depends on the
unreasonable man. ~GBS

Posts: 6902
Joined: 06/15/05
Re: QGA move-ordering?
Reply #5 - 08/13/12 at 20:31:40
Post Tools
I don't know which variations of the QGA the OP intends to play, but c5 with possible IQP play is definitely a thematic idea in many QGA lines. Black should be very happy after 3...c5.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
fling
God Member
*****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 1591
Joined: 01/21/11
Gender: Male
Re: QGA move-ordering?
Reply #4 - 08/13/12 at 19:17:55
Post Tools
Girkassa wrote on 08/13/12 at 05:26:26:
As long as White follows up with 4.c3 or some similar move, Black is probably closer to =/+ than White is to +/=. But there is also the move 4.c4, not particularly scary, but Black should be aware of it. Then 4...e6 is the e3 Tarrasch, while 4...cxd4 5.exd4 is the Panov. If Black is to play 3...c5, he must be ready for one of these two transpositions.


This is a good point. It is ok for sure for Black, but not the same character of play as the variations OP is seeking to play I think.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Girkassa
Senior Member
****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 433
Joined: 04/07/07
Re: QGA move-ordering?
Reply #3 - 08/13/12 at 05:26:26
Post Tools
Smyslov_Fan wrote on 08/13/12 at 03:12:22:
But perhaps the most thematic way for Black to play when White doesn't play c4 is to play 3...c5! White hasn't made a losing mistake, but white has absolutely no advantage in the resulting positions. The only GM to routinely play these positions as white was Artur Yusupov (Jussupow in Chessbase databases). White scores only ~40% in these lines.


As long as White follows up with 4.c3 or some similar move, Black is probably closer to =/+ than White is to +/=. But there is also the move 4.c4, not particularly scary, but Black should be aware of it. Then 4...e6 is the e3 Tarrasch, while 4...cxd4 5.exd4 is the Panov. If Black is to play 3...c5, he must be ready for one of these two transpositions.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Smyslov_Fan
God Member
Correspondence fan
*****
Offline


Progress depends on the
unreasonable man. ~GBS

Posts: 6902
Joined: 06/15/05
Re: QGA move-ordering?
Reply #2 - 08/13/12 at 03:12:22
Post Tools
1.d4 d5 2.Nf3 Nf6 3.e3 is insipid.

It allows Black virtually instant equality because there's no pressure on Black at this point. Black can resolve the problems with his light-squared B on move 3. If white insists on transposing into Queen's gambit lines, Black has numerous ways to decline it that give Black equality. he can play 3...Bf5, followed by c6 or even e6.  He can also play 3...Bg4 and gain equality. If he wants a theoretical discussion, he can play 3...c6 or 3...e6.

But perhaps the most thematic way for Black to play when White doesn't play c4 is to play 3...c5! White hasn't made a losing mistake, but white has absolutely no advantage in the resulting positions. The only GM to routinely play these positions as white was Artur Yusupov (Jussupow in Chessbase databases). White scores only ~40% in these lines.

So Black has numerous ways to play against white's third move error that lead to at least an equal game.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Menake Halonot
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline



Posts: 34
Joined: 09/11/10
Gender: Male
Re: QGA move-ordering?
Reply #1 - 08/12/12 at 21:06:45
Post Tools
I play this line of the queen's gambit accepted and I answer 2.Nf3 Nf6 3.e3 with 3...Bg4 and now 4.c4 dxc4 transposes to the queen's gambit accepted. you can answer 2.e3 with 2...Nf6
and after 3.c4 you may play 3...e6 which transposes to a line of the queen's gambit declined which is considered fine for black.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
gwnn
Senior Member
****
Offline



Posts: 472
Joined: 03/21/11
QGA move-ordering?
08/12/12 at 17:45:25
Post Tools
I would like to play the QGA with the following variations:

1 d4 d5 2 c4 dxc4 3 Nf3 (3 e4 Nf6 or Nc6; 3 e3 e5) Nf6 4 e3 Bg4

The question is: what if white delays c4? In particular:

1 d4 d5 2 Nf3 Nf6 (so far a no-brainer) 3 e3 and
1 d4 d5 2 e3

I guess I can just play c5 and take it from there? The trick is not to be move-ordered into a mainline QGA (based on the bishop on b7 and not g4). I guess most of the time when white plays like this will not even play c4 at all, but I have someone in my club who plays 2 e3 to 'make sure c4 is defended'; granted, not a very strong player.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Bookmarks: del.icio.us Digg Facebook Google Google+ Linked in reddit StumbleUpon Twitter Yahoo