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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Is the Classical Sicilian that bad? (Read 75478 times)
cathexis
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Re: Is the Classical Sicilian that bad?
Reply #100 - 04/17/25 at 21:29:57
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Cheesy Yep! Math failure! Sorry 'bout that!

@Free - Yep! Modern Chess is the maker. But is modern chess selling it for $23.79 (perNernstian59)?
  
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FreeRepublic
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Re: Is the Classical Sicilian that bad?
Reply #99 - 04/17/25 at 21:07:19
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cathexis wrote on 04/17/25 at 15:55:47:
I would welcome your opinions.

This sounds a lot like the 2022 Modern-Chess product. I would compare the two before buying. If this is newer, that would be a plus.
  
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Nernstian59
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Re: Is the Classical Sicilian that bad?
Reply #98 - 04/17/25 at 18:22:36
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cathexis - I may be wrong, but I believe that the 70% off sale would reduce the price of that $79 course course to $23.70. At least that's how the 70% off sales work at modern-chess.com. And speaking of Easter sales, that site also announced a 70% off sale earlier this week.  In their case, the code is EASTER2025. IIRC this is the highest discount the modern-chess offers. (60% off sales are fairly common). In addition, there's a quantity discount if two or more courses are ordered at the same time.
  
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cathexis
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Re: Is the Classical Sicilian that bad?
Reply #97 - 04/17/25 at 15:55:47
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Well, speaking of vids - Thechessworld is having a Easter sale of 70% off from any course. This Classical Sicillian course has 3 chapters on 6.Bc4 Qb6 lines. I can't comment on the course except to say the Bulgarian GM has easily understood English (sometimes an issuewith other vids). The "special code" is EASTER70. A 15 hour course. $79.00US for $55.30 I think. Link:

https://thechessworld.com/store/product/classical-sicilian-expert-repertoire-for...

I would welcome your opinions.
  
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FreeRepublic
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Re: Is the Classical Sicilian that bad?
Reply #96 - 04/17/25 at 15:26:05
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cathexis wrote on 04/17/25 at 14:23:54:
Just got this ad from CB this morning:

Very timely! He provides a good introduction to the opening and to his course. it does not seem that he dwells on deviations prior to reaching the Classical Sicilian. I'd have to do some digging to see if other authors cover early deviations.

I notice that he goes with Benko's response to Bobby Fischer:
1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. d4 cd4 4. Nd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 Nc6 6. Bc4 Qb6 instead of the more commone 6...e6. 6...Qb6 is sensible and definitely takes the edge off the game compared to 6...e6.

The intro mentions the pros and cons of 2...d6 and 2...Nc6, rightly pointing out that 2...Nc6 allows 3Bb5. I like the play from 2...Nc6 3Bb5 for Black, yet think that White is better. I'm leaning towards 2...d6. It's more lines for me to learn, but Black seems to be A ok.
  
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cathexis
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Re: Is the Classical Sicilian that bad?
Reply #95 - 04/17/25 at 14:23:54
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Go figure! Just got this ad from CB this morning:

   https://shop.chessbase.com/en/products/sethuraman_the_classical_sicilian?ref=RF1...

Hope this helps!
  
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FreeRepublic
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Re: Is the Classical Sicilian that bad?
Reply #94 - 04/16/25 at 12:43:13
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Chessable also has publications on the Classical Sicicilian. GM Sam Shankland, GM Srinath Narayanan, and  GMs Mikel Huerga & Andrea Stella have each published.

It seems that most all recent publications on the Classical Sicilian have the same approach to the critical Richter-Rauzer:  
1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 Nc6 6. Bg5 e6 7. Qd2 a6!? 8. O-O-O Bd7

I've only seen one author attempt an older, even more classical, approach.  FM Amro El Jawich advocates 7...Be7 in "The Razor Sharp Rauzer Sicilian." It's a great effort on his part and well suited for anyone who already plays 7...Be7.

I did not find any titles on the Classical Sicilian at Forward Chess.
  
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Re: Is the Classical Sicilian that bad?
Reply #93 - 04/15/25 at 21:54:00
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To answer the subject question, it seems it's not bad at all. It has been recommended at Modern-Chess by several authors:  GM Arjun (Dec 2024), GM Cheparinov (June 2022), Workshop (Dec 2021), and IM Kanmazalp (Feb 2019). I remember Cheparinov gave resources for both sides. Here's one that came as a surprise to me:

1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. d4 cd4 4. Nd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 Nc6 6. Bc4 e6 7. Be3 a6 8. Qe2 Be7 9. O-O-O O-O 10. Nc6!? Cheparinov:  An original thought. bc6 11. h4!? d5 12. h5 h6 13. g4 Qc7 14. Bd3 END
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But that may not be the end of the story! 14...dxe, 14...e5, and 14...d4 can be considered. Perhaps best is 14...de4 15. Ne4 Rb8 where White has a promising position, but I think Black hangs on in complications.
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Re: Is the Classical Sicilian that bad?
Reply #92 - 01/05/24 at 23:36:36
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kylemeister wrote on 01/05/24 at 05:40:04:
I'm inclined to wonder about is why 6...e6 7. Qd2 a6 8. 0-0-0 Bd7 9. f4 Be7 10. Nf3 b5 11. Bxf6 is so much more popular than 11. e5.


I can't say. I wouldn't be surprised if 11e5 were to become more popular. Over the last two years with players rated above 2400, the score has been +7, =4, -5.
  
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Re: Is the Classical Sicilian that bad?
Reply #91 - 01/05/24 at 15:45:10
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I seem to recall Shankland (author of a product for the black side) commenting to the effect that (6...e6) 7. Qd3 is a worthy try and Black needs to know what [s]he's doing.

Chess Openings: Theory and Practice from the 1960s (supposedly by I. A. Horowitz, but according to an ordinary chessplayer actually not) attributed 7. Qd3 to Keres. 

Re 6...Qb6, I note that the yellow ECO reboot of a few years ago gave 7. Be3 a6 as one of the paths to a slight advantage for White.
  
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Re: Is the Classical Sicilian that bad?
Reply #90 - 01/05/24 at 14:55:05
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Indeed, Cheparinov recommends 6. Bg5 e6 7. Qd3 for White in the Richter-Rauzer, as well as 6.Bg5 Qb6?! 7.Be3! (his punctuation). It's in the preview at the end of
https://www.modern-chess.com/top-level-repertoire-against-the-sicilian-part-1-7-...

edit: Browsing with the Lichess comp on the 6. Bg5 Qb6 7. Be3 line:
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With White's bishop still on f1, Black shouldn't take on b2:

A) 7...Qxb2? 8. Ndb5 Qb4 9. Bd2 Qc5!?
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Hoping for 10. Nc7+ Kd8 11. Nxa8 Ng4 12. Qf3 Nd4 13. Qd1 Nb5 with a repetition, but White is on top after 10. Rb1! Ng4 11.Qe2 Rb8 12.h3, Goins-Vroom 2004.

B) if Black doesn't want to play tempo-down lines with Qc7 or Qa5, he can try 7...a6 when 8. a3 or 8. Nb3 are OK for White, as Black will soon regroup with Qc7 and e6.
  
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Re: Is the Classical Sicilian that bad?
Reply #89 - 01/05/24 at 05:40:04
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Regarding B68-69, a thing I'm inclined to wonder about is why 6...e6 7. Qd2 a6 8. 0-0-0 Bd7 9. f4 Be7 10. Nf3 b5 11. Bxf6 is so much more popular than 11. e5. (In the ChessBase online database they score identically. Historical tidbit: in the '90s, Nunn's Chess Openings and a Russian encyclopedia had 11. e5 as preferable.)
  
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Re: Is the Classical Sicilian that bad?
Reply #88 - 01/05/24 at 01:28:14
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The Richter-Rauzer is the main hurdle and Black seems to be doing well in the B67-B69 lines based in high level games played the last two years. The play is sharp.

I've looked at 6...Qb6 (B60) in the past and was not satisfied with Black's chances. However, GM V. Durabeyli (2625) has had good results against 2400+ players the last two years. As Black, he's won 5 games, lost 3, with 2 draws. Against 2600 rated players he's even.

White has done well deviating from the main line. Successful sidelines the last two years are bolded:  1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 Nc6 6. Bg5 e6 7. Qd2 (7. Qd3) a6 8. O-O-O Bd7 (9. Kb1) 9. f3 or 9. f4. I assume Black is less prepared in those lines, but reason enough to consider this from either side of the board.
  
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Re: Is the Classical Sicilian that bad?
Reply #87 - 07/14/23 at 15:41:47
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fjd wrote on 06/11/17 at 21:11:49:
I suppose in the version without ...h6, Black would do better to take on b2 instead of ...Bd4, but that looks like it leads to a Rook ending that's better for White.


This is a blast from the distant past, but perhaps with a new conclusion. After

1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 Nc6 6. Bg5 e6 7. Qd2 Be7 8. O-O-O O-O 9. f4 Nxd4 10. Qxd4 Bd7 11. Bf6 Bf6 12. Qd6 Bc6 13. Qd8 Rfd8 14. Bb5 Bc3 15. Bc6 Bb2 16. Kb2 bc6 17. Kc3,
I came to the conclusion that Black was lost.

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New engines, new insights. It now seems that all rook endgames are drawn.
17... e5! 18. f5 Rab8! 19. Kc4 Kf8 20. Kc5 Rb5! 21. Kc6 Rdb8 22. Rd8! Rd8 23. Kb5 Rd2
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This ending appears to be drawn, though Black probably needs to demonstrate more ingenuity than White.

  
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Re: Is the Classical Sicilian that bad?
Reply #86 - 05/11/23 at 17:40:38
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After 1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 d6 6. Bg5 e6 7. Qd2 a6 8. O-O-O Bd7, 9. f3 is challenging, both because it is a good move and because the play is not so concrete. The main response in the past was 9...Be7. Black develops and can later choose between Nxd4 or Ne5. Perhaps the problem is that just when Black is ready to commit to one to one knight move or another, White plays Nxc6!?

Carlsen played 9...Nxd4, Anand - Carlsen 2018, and 9...Nxd4 10.Qxd4 quickly became a major line.

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10...Bc6 tries to make sense out of Black's play. Moves 8 through 11 put Black's bishop on the long diagonal. 10...Bc6 is mentioned, though not recommended, by Avrukh. Brandon Jacobon has played it with reasonable results. It's often the case that ...d5 e5 ensues with a French type of position. Avrukh also mentions 10...h6 11Be3 Bc6, with similar ideas. Nuances may be important though.

The main move by far is 10...Be7. It seems odd to leave the Bishop on d7. It's like playing g6 and not following-up with Bg7 in other openings. However, White has no immediate to prove Black's game wrong and the Bishop does cover important squares. For example if ...b5-b4, White can not play Na4. Also ...b5 ...a5 may become possible.

White has many moves, perhaps the main one being 11.Kb1.

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*[/fen]

Several authors have considered 11...b5 and 11...Qc7. The moves may, but need not, transpose. Kozul mentions 11...0-0, but only to make a point about the desirabilty of 11.Kb1:  11. Kb1 O-O 12. Bf6 Bf6 13. Qd6 Qa5 14. Nd5 ed5 15. e5 

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"15...Bg5 does not arrive with check," Kozul. True enough, but Black is not lost in this position. He has 15...Bxe5, and even better 15...Bf5! 16. ef6 Bc2 17. Kc2 Qa4 18. Kd2 Qd4 19. Bd3 Qb2, which Stockfish assesses as equal.

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White does not have to play 12Bxf6. 12.g4? Nxe4! is fine for Black. However, bishop retreats (12Be3, 12Bd2, 12Bc1) and also 12h4 are possible.

11...Bc6, similar to 10...Bc6, may also be possible.
« Last Edit: 05/12/23 at 13:02:16 by FreeRepublic »  
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