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Normal Topic Interesting Zwischenschach (Read 3750 times)
Girkassa
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Re: Interesting Zwischenschach
Reply #4 - 09/04/12 at 19:29:08
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MNb wrote on 09/04/12 at 04:39:53:
Just wondering: why not 4...exd5 and eventually 5...Bb4(+) ? Let White open his/her cards first.


I suppose the almost untried 4...exd5 5.Bg5 Bb4+ 6.Nbd2 could be an idea. The knight is less active than on c3, but also less exposed to ...Ne4 and ...Qa5 ideas. That said, I would rather play this as Black than the 4...Bb4+ 5.Bd2 Bxd2+ 6.Nxd2 line.
  
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ErictheRed
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Re: Interesting Zwischenschach
Reply #3 - 09/04/12 at 15:23:16
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MNb wrote on 09/04/12 at 04:39:53:
Just wondering: why not 4...exd5 and eventually 5...Bb4(+) ? Let White open his/her cards first.


I suspect you're right; I was drawn to the original play after 6.Qxd2 Ne4, which does look like something I'd be willing to play as Black in a serious game.  However, the more I look at it, the more I think the simple 6.Nbxd2 ed 7.Rc1 is good for a typical White edge, and Black's position isn't all that dynamic.  Strange; I'd thought that White really needed his Knight on c3 here, but his development is fast and the pressure down the c-file is annoying.

Not the first idea of mine that wasn't as great as it initially looked!  Still, it's got to be playable and I'm surprised that it hasn't been tried (I see only 2 games on www.chesslive.de).
  
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Vass
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Re: Interesting Zwischenschach
Reply #2 - 09/04/12 at 08:24:55
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ErictheRed wrote on 09/04/12 at 01:56:57:
.... That leaves White with 5.Bd2 Bxd2+, when 6.Qxd2 looks like the only try for advantage.
....
So, what do we think of this position?  Black might consider 6...Ne4 with some kind of original play.  Curiously, in Megabase 2012, 4...Bb4+ has only been played 1 time by an 1800 player!  I don't see anything obviously wrong with it, and I'm surprised it's never been played before, not even once, by a reasonably strong player (FM, say).  

Edit: Hmm, I'm now wondering whether 5. Bd2 Bxd2+ 6. Nbxd2 exd5 7. Rc1 might be good for an advantage; I'd assumed that the Knight really should be on c3 here, but White might get good pressure down the c-file.  Still, curious about opinions.

Hi, Eric!
I have found a game in my ICCF database that can be of help, I hope. After 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.Nf3 d5 4.cxd5 Bb4!? 5.Bd2 Bxd2 6.Nbd2 exd5, we come to the same exact position (by transposition) as in this game where white played 7.Qa4!? (instead of 7.Rc1)



Obviously not a high quality correspondence game, but still..  Cool
As for myself, I don't believe in 7.Qa4!?, but it is a move that has to be considered, definitely..  Wink
  
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MNb
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Re: Interesting Zwischenschach
Reply #1 - 09/04/12 at 04:39:53
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Just wondering: why not 4...exd5 and eventually 5...Bb4(+) ? Let White open his/her cards first.
  

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ErictheRed
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Interesting Zwischenschach
09/04/12 at 01:56:57
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So I was playing Black in a blitz game and trying to get a Nimzo or Ragozin.  The game went:

1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.Nf3 d5 4.cd

Now I know that this is considered an inferior version of a QGD exchange, but like Mathew Sadler said years ago in his Queen's Gambit Declined book, he had bad results from this position as Black for a while because he wasn't sufficiently acquainted with all the ideas.  Even though Black isn't under theoretical pressure, it can be annoying to face White's standard minority attack stuff where he gets to play fairly automatically. 

So I got to thinking...why not throw in ...Bb4+?  Maybe White will interpose with the Knight and I'm back in the Ragozin.  

1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.Nf3 d5 4.cd Bb4+


* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
*

Now as noted, 5.Nc3 ed is a Ragozin.  5.Nbd2 looks very odd; 5...Qxd5 might be playable but simply 5...ed must be an improved version of a Ragozin-type position.  I guess this position must be known from the Bogo-Indian, but no-one would seriously exchange on d5 there.

That leaves White with 5.Bd2 Bxd2+, when 6.Qxd2 looks like the only try for advantage.

* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
*

So, what do we think of this position?  Black might consider 6...Ne4 with some kind of original play.  Curiously, in Megabase 2012, 4...Bb4+ has only been played 1 time by an 1800 player!  I don't see anything obviously wrong with it, and I'm surprised it's never been played before, not even once, by a reasonably strong player (FM, say).  

Edit: Hmm, I'm now wondering whether 5. Bd2 Bxd2+ 6. Nbxd2 exd5 7. Rc1 might be good for an advantage; I'd assumed that the Knight really should be on c3 here, but White might get good pressure down the c-file.  Still, curious about opinions.
  
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