Very interesting bragejo -- thanks. I had looked at 13 ...Nf4 14 Nf3 Re8, which I think is good for White, but managed to completely ignore 13 ...Nf6! After 14 Nf3 Ne4 15 0-0 Nc3 I think White has hardly even a 'nibble'. Maybe 15 Bd4!? should be looked at, but I'd imagine Black's resources are sufficient here.

Looking at some old posts last night, I was reminded that TN, years ago now, had suggested that the Bg5 + e4 variation with 9 …Qe7 10 e4 e5 11 d5 was good for White! – which maybe partially explains why I’ve always been interested in it. I used to think that 9 …Qe7 10 e4 a5!? 11 e5 de 12 de Nd7 was a fully adequate response taking play into different (albeit rather boring) channels, but then it dawned on me White can play 11 Be2 here, transposing after 11 …e5 (unless Black has other choices here, of course: 11 …Nh5!?; 11 …a4!?) 12 d5 Nb8 to the line Vass gives in Reply #3. Is this actually OK for Black? In the line 13 Nd2 a4 14 c5 dc, maybe just 15 0-0 is good? My Houdini gives here 15 …Nbd7, but 16 Bb5 Ne8 17 Nf3 looks clearly better for White, so I wondered about 15 …c6!? (well, breaking up White’s centre is a theme of the Zurich!). Things could get really complicated after 16 f4 ef 17 d6 Qe6 18 Qd3!? (18 Rf4 Nd5 19 Rg4 f6; 18 Bc4 Qg4) c4! 19 Qc4 Qc4 20 Bc4 Be6, when just possibly Black is OK after all three captures? Very hairy stuff …

The other defences are fascinating too. How about 12 …c6 13 0-0 (Houdini’s 13 dc is surely no big problem, and on 13 h3?!, 13 …Nbd7, 13 …cd and 13 …b5!? all look interesting) Bg4? – e.g. 14 h3 Bf3 15 Bf3 Rc8 16 Qe2 Nbd7, and will White be able to use his Bishops? Similar themes, and possible transpositions, apply after 12 …Bg4, though after 13 h3 Bf3 14 Bf3 maybe Black should preface …c6 with …Rc8? 

The defence 12 …Nh7 always looked a bit artificial to me, but looking at the Gurevich-Benjamin game which went 13 g3 Bh3 14 Rg1 Bd7 15 Nh4 c6 16 f4 Na6 17 dc bc 18 0-0-0, I wondered if just keeping things closed with 15 …a5 16 f4 Re8 is so bad for Black …

I’m not convinced that – as TN implies – White’s Bg5 + e4 setup isn’t as dangerous as any in the Zurich! Equalising for Black certainly isn’t a piece of cake, though I’m not saying it can’t be, or hasn’t been, done. Any thoughts?

Quote:

As I implied in my last post, I think that if anything the opposite is the case. Certainly 6 Bd2 and 6 a3 are the main moves in terms of frequency, with 6 Bg5 being only half as common. But that doesn't mean 6 Bg5!? isn't a serious try! -- Black has to watch that the h6 pawn doesn't become the 'hook' for a White attack.

Very interesting stuff, Vass -- thanks! I forgot about 12 ...a5!?, probably because there's only one game with it in the standard databases, Sarkar--Hortillosa, which went 13 b4 ab 14 ab Ra1 15 Ba1 Bg4. But I can see that 13 ...Nh5! is an improvement, because Black needs to play actively and the insertion of the moves b4 and ...a5 means ...Nh5 is possible again since White always has to watch for Black striking a blow on the Queenside front.

So now we have at least five interesting defences to White's Bg5 + e4 system! I guess 6 Bg5 hasn't received so much coverage (I have Tango!, great book, and reach this via that opening as I'm a Tango maniac!) because most GMs feel ...h6 helps Black more than it hurts him, but be that as it may I've a feeling that there's quite a lot in the Zurich system still waiting to be discovered ...

Anon wrote on 10/25/12 at 19:42:38:


I actually usually plays 4 0-0 and plays Karpov variation since I sometimes plays Caro Kann and Panov attack can transpose. I have however played a few blitz games with b6 too and there I played Fischer Ba6 but to few games and to low quality to draw any conclusions.

Thanks for catalysing this update, bragesjo! Really timely for me since I've been looking at these lines just recently.

I wonder if there's going to be a subsequent update on 6 Bg5 h6 (6 ...Qe7!?) 7 Bd2 0-0 8 a3 Bc3 9 Bc3? I can never decide what Black should play here! In the line 9 ...Qe7 10 e4 e5 11 d5 Nb8 12 Be2, 12 ...Nh5? doesn't work because of the weakness of g6 but 12 ...Bg4, 12 ...c6 and 12 ...Nh7 are maybe all interesting? -- does anyone know of any theory on these? (I guess there's also 9 ...a5!? 10 e4 Qe7 11 e5 de 12 de Nd7, which seems pretty solid if a little unexciting ...)

I asked John Emms why there was so relative few games at subsubsription section with this line and gave him a few reasons why this line is importent , for example Nf3 Nc6 whites best move is  Qc2 according to Wards book about 4 Nf3.  I also reminded him that there was a long time since Nc6 was played at subectiption section. He replied that I was right and he would look for developments and this months update is only about this line! He showed some additonal transposing options that I was not aware of!

Lite bit of topic, I am playing some corr chess with Nimzo theme and in one Qc2 game I tried Nc6 and without giving to much away the position is very unclear right now, I am not shure who is better.