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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) 1. e4 c5 2. c3 Nf6 3. e5 Nd5 4. Nf3 Nc6 5. Bc4 e6 (Read 17013 times)
tipau
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Re: 1. e4 c5 2. c3 Nf6 3. e5 Nd5 4. Nf3 Nc6 5. Bc4 e6
Reply #6 - 12/14/12 at 14:02:50
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Hi Ender,

As a c3 Sicilian player who prefers delaying Bc4 I've noticed this myself.

In the usual move order 1.e4 c5 2.c3 Nf6 3.e5 Nd5 4.Nf3 e6 5.d4 cxd4 6.cxd4 d6 I now like 7.a3!? followed by Bf1-d3. Tiviakov has played this way several times I think.

I've never had 4...Nc6 5.Bc4 e6 but I'd allow the transposition 6.d4 cxd4 7.cxd4 d6. There are different approaches for White but ultimately it's about equal. The main drawback is that Black players tend to be more familiar with this position than with 7.a3. The game Howell - Hillarp Persson from a few years ago shows an interesting approach from White.
  

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zoo
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Re: 1. e4 c5 2. c3 Nf6 3. e5 Nd5 4. Nf3 Nc6 5. Bc4 e6
Reply #5 - 12/10/12 at 23:43:36
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Hello Ender,
if Black wants to play with e6-d6-Nc6 against the c3 sicilian, you can't do much to prevent this. On the other hand, you'll have forced draws (or more) starting with Bxh7, so you can play in pop-corn mode and watch your opponent take chances just to avoid the draw. Sounds much better than giving away the bishop pair with Bc4xd5.

The basic position Black wants is this one :

* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
*

Here White has many possibilities : 9.a3, 9.Nc3, 9.Bd2, 9.Qe2, 9.Re1... Despite allowing forced draws, it is a favourite with chess writers because Black can always reach it (somehow that makes sense for an editor).

If you're ok playing this with White, you might as well start studying this position, because Black will go for it without fretting about the right time to take d4, or whatever. If you're reluctant to play d4 (e.g. Qe2 first), the problem is that Black plays ...dxe5 and as you can't maintain a pawn nor a Knight at e5, there goes your kingside attack. Being White, I would much prefer playing the usual position with d4 and Bc4. But then, I don't know Mr Tiviakov's plans.

NB. as pointed out by Kylemeister, you should check your main line with 7.Bd3 ?!, at least dubious in view of 7...Nb4 8.Be2 dxe5 9.dxe5 Qxd1 (8.Bb5 Bd7 9.Be2 Bc6 is even worse).
  
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Ender
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Re: 1. e4 c5 2. c3 Nf6 3. e5 Nd5 4. Nf3 Nc6 5. Bc4 e6
Reply #4 - 12/09/12 at 14:59:00
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TN wrote on 12/09/12 at 01:40:36:
You can always play 5.d4 if you want to use a sideline (i.e. not 7.Bc4) against the ...e6 systems. Of course that allows some other options for Black.


The problem is, that i don't play quick d4 lines. Rather Bc4 lines advocated by Tiviakov on his dvd. So d4 is out of question. This Nc6-e6 move order is interesting in my opinion.
  

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Re: 1. e4 c5 2. c3 Nf6 3. e5 Nd5 4. Nf3 Nc6 5. Bc4 e6
Reply #3 - 12/09/12 at 07:49:39
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This probably transposes to similar positions in which White has played d4 already. These usually continue ...cxd4, and even after Qxd4 ...d6, it is thought that Bxd5 is not good (see e.g. The Safest Sicilian). In your move order, White might not even get the d5 pawn as compensation for giving up the light squared bishop (White's good one). I can't see anything good for White with taking on d5 really.
  
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TN
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Re: 1. e4 c5 2. c3 Nf6 3. e5 Nd5 4. Nf3 Nc6 5. Bc4 e6
Reply #2 - 12/09/12 at 01:40:36
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You can always play 5.d4 if you want to use a sideline (i.e. not 7.Bc4) against the ...e6 systems. Of course that allows some other options for Black.
  

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Re: 1. e4 c5 2. c3 Nf6 3. e5 Nd5 4. Nf3 Nc6 5. Bc4 e6
Reply #1 - 12/09/12 at 00:41:55
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Maybe you didn't mean this, but as far as I know immediate Bd3 would be unusual after 1. e4 c5 2. c3 Nf6 3. e5 Nd5 4. Nf3 e6 5. d4 cxd4 6. cxd4 d6, and well met by ...Nb4.

I notice that Bxd5 has come up in some books (e.g. Sveshnikov's old monograph) in the position after 1. e4 c5 2. c3 Nf6 3. e5 Nd5 4. Nf3 Nc6 5. Bc4 e6 6. d4 cd (basically as leading to equality or deserving attention).
  
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Ender
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1. e4 c5 2. c3 Nf6 3. e5 Nd5 4. Nf3 Nc6 5. Bc4 e6
12/08/12 at 23:26:21
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Hi guys!

In the Alapin line starting with 1. e4 c5 2. c3 Nf6 3. e5 Nd5 4. Nf3 Nc6 5. Bc4  black can play 5..e6 !?

I wonder if this move forces me to play Bc4 systems against black e6-d6 classical systems? Or maybe white can take 6. Bxd5?

The problem is, that after e6-d6 setup for black i like to post my bishop on d3 and then attack with Qe2-e4 like in line
1. e4 c5 2. c3 Nf6 3. e5 Nd5 4. Nf3 e6 5. d4 cxd4 6. cxd4 d6 7. Bd3

So my question is: can this move order ( 1. e4 c5 2. c3 Nf6 3. e5 Nd5 4. Nf3 Nc6 5. Bc4 e6_ be a threat to my favorite Bd3 setup?  Maybe after such move order I need to play with my bishop on c4, or maybe i can just take on d5 with my bishop?

  

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