sloughter wrote on 01/21/13 at 05:44:32:


Yeah, maybe at move 5. Stop this non-sense! Where the heck did you get 5 ...Qh4 from? What about 5 ...dxe4, which is perhaps one of the main ideas of taking on c3 at move 4? Or 5 ...Ne7, offering a transposition to the main lines of the Winaver? And it isn't like 4. a3 is a new move, right? There were some world champions playing this move... And the anti-dotes are thus pretty well known. As far as I know, nobody has ever suggested 5 ...Qh4 as an alternative, for good reasons.

However, I have to say that yes, 4. a3 is indeed viewed as a tricky move to meet unprepared.

Ender wrote on 01/12/13 at 00:06:49:


Being late in this thread...I answer only the initial question about different alternatives for White after 8...cxd4.

8.Bd3!? is Geller gambit and for me, already an alternative to the PP main lines (as White usualy plays Qd3)

White must be prepared afrer 8...cxd4 9.Ne2 (9.Qxd4?! Nbc6) to variations like:

A) 9...h5 10.Qxg7 (finally grabbing the poisoned pawn) Rg8 11.Qh6 dxc3 12.Qxh5 Nd7 13.Bf4 Nc4=+
Keeping the e5 pawn onboard wasn't a big success

B) 9...dxc3 10.Qxg7 (if 10.oo Qxe5= or even10...oo!? ; 10.f4 Nbc6 11.Qxg7 Rg8 12.Qxg7 Rxg2 =+  a tricky line of PP...but maybe one good line for Black) Rg8 11.Qxh7 (11.Qh6 Qxe5=+) Nbc6!? (11...Nd7 or 11...Qxe5 or 11...Bd7 are not so easy for Black) is position given in chesspub update september 2005, game Likos-Rodriguez,Santo Mario Covas 2005 where White has no better than 12.Bf4 Bd7 13.oo ooo=

C) 9...oo 10.Bg5 Nbc6 11.cxd4 Qa5+ !? 

So sorry...nothing very tasteful for White.

Black has also many deviations or transpositions 8...c4!?  ; 8...Nbc6 ; 8...h5 ; 8...Nd7 

7.Qg4 cxd4 8.Bd3!? is Geller gambit (without Qc7) played in game Tal-Bronstein,Kiev 1965 and Spassky-Korchnoi,Belgrade 1977

Remember we looked at this a while back and 12.Bg5 is a forced draw which has happened a few times. 12.Bd2!? is a pawn sacrifice which looks like excellent practical chances for White but I suppose the computer will come up with the way to play it for Black.

MartinC wrote on 01/12/13 at 08:20:10:

I'm afraid 6. bxc3 Ne7 7. Qg4 cxd4 8.Bd3!? is not so OK after Qa5! After 9.Ne2 O-O play transposes to 7.Qg4 O-O 8.Bd3 Qa5 9.Ne2 cxd4 , hence I prefer 7.h4 and only after 6...Qc7 7.Qg4 Ne7 I play 8.Bd3.

I didn't even bother to look. If you type "C18 Poisoned" into the search thread here, you will find several such threads. 

I've bumped one of them.

If you want to find stuff on a specific French line, just type the ECO code in and see if it's already been covered!

Hi guys!
I'm interested in line 

1. e4 e6 2. d4 d5 3. Nc3 Bb4 4. e5 c5 5. a3 Bxc3+ 6. bxc3 Ne7 7. Qg4 Qc7 8.Bd3!?

But the problem is, that black can play 7..cxd4 and then if 8.Qxg7, then we are back in main line posioned pawn which is just too much theory for me. Is there any possible side variation after 7..cxd4!?  which is good for white? I analysed this positon for a while and i think the best is just to take on g7, but then black can transpose to PP if he want so....