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Normal Topic B76 Leko-Van Wely (Read 9692 times)
gewgaw
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Re: B76 Leko-Van Wely
Reply #9 - 02/06/13 at 21:03:17
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What are the last words in these lines:

1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 g6 6. Be3 Bg7 7. f3 Nc6 8. Qd2
O-O 9. O-O-O d5 10. exd5 Nxd5 11. Nxc6 bxc6 12. Bd4 e5 13. Bc5 Re8 14. Ne4 (14.
Nxd5 cxd5 15. Qxd5 Qxd5 16. Rxd5 Be6 17. Rd6 Bxa2 18. b4) 14... Be6 15. h4 h6
16. g4 Qc7 17. g5 h5 18. Bc4 Red8 19. Qf2 Qb7 *
  

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bragesjo
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Re: B76 Leko-Van Wely
Reply #8 - 02/06/13 at 10:33:53
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Chessexplained wrote on 02/06/13 at 09:09:55:
Besides "mathematical" engine evals there is also something like personal taste and preference in chess. I did a brief coverage of that game (Karjakin-v. Wely) on video and in fact even didn't like black's position anyway - playing ...h5? or not. He's got an inferior structure, worse pieces and more insecure king. In the dutch language notes there is a position given after ...h5 where "Black has got an acceptable position". This simply looks terrible to me and I NEVER would play that willingly, ever. Maybe it's ok "tactically" acc to some computer, but it just looks bad for a human (at least me).


I agree, I got tired of these types of positions so I swithed opening complety. My last Dragon games will be a couple of corr games from a Bc4 yugoslav thematic tournament.
  
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Re: B76 Leko-Van Wely
Reply #7 - 02/06/13 at 09:09:55
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Besides "mathematical" engine evals there is also something like personal taste and preference in chess. I did a brief coverage of that game (Karjakin-v. Wely) on video and in fact even didn't like black's position anyway - playing ...h5? or not. He's got an inferior structure, worse pieces and more insecure king. In the dutch language notes there is a position given after ...h5 where "Black has got an acceptable position". This simply looks terrible to me and I NEVER would play that willingly, ever. Maybe it's ok "tactically" acc to some computer, but it just looks bad for a human (at least me).
  
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bragesjo
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Re: B76 Leko-Van Wely
Reply #6 - 02/06/13 at 08:21:45
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Speaking of online chess and curse, when watching brodcasts many players call is a blunder if the assesment decreaes by 0.01. instead of increasring with + 0.2.

I watched this game live and unless there was some delay in the brodcast h5 was actually played after some thought and Karjakin did also think before playing g4. I think that Van Wely thought g4 was bad becouse of Nf6 but it does not work tactically.

Speaking of engines, in a ongoing corr game on a site my opponnet played many deep and strange looking moves. First 9 moves where forcred since it was a thematical tournamnt, after followed 4 book line moves, two realy bad human moves (that I played very inaccurate agianst) and then my oponnnet started top play good moves.. Enignes are not allowed at the site but last week I became suspicios and compared hes moves with Houdini 3 and he has played Houdini 3 topline move in 30 moves in a row while I had better moves in at least 10 positions. 
  
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Re: B76 Leko-Van Wely
Reply #5 - 02/05/13 at 09:31:55
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brabo wrote on 02/05/13 at 09:22:39:
bragesjo wrote on 02/05/13 at 09:05:36:
Let se what Chris Ward says "

Played in such a high level event, I was going to be highly critical of the Dutch GM, but although it's true that he doesn't exactly cover himself in glory, 'not so lucky' Luc in this instance seemed to be lost after 18 g4! in the above position, effectively straight from the opening. I suspect that we are going to see more of 16 Nc5 in the future!"

A complete different sound of the same game is given on http://schaaksite.nl/page.php?al=prachtig-tata-steel-tournament-ten-einde. IM Grooten and GM Reinderman were involved in the analysis (besides several engines of course). It is clear to me that h5 is somewhat dubious but I find the evaluation 'lost after 18.g4!' overrated.


isn't that the curse of modern chess. Online a heap of chess patzers armed with 3000 elo chess programs are jumping onto any "blunder" far stronger players make. 
  
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brabo
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Re: B76 Leko-Van Wely
Reply #4 - 02/05/13 at 09:22:39
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bragesjo wrote on 02/05/13 at 09:05:36:
Let se what Chris Ward says "

Played in such a high level event, I was going to be highly critical of the Dutch GM, but although it's true that he doesn't exactly cover himself in glory, 'not so lucky' Luc in this instance seemed to be lost after 18 g4! in the above position, effectively straight from the opening. I suspect that we are going to see more of 16 Nc5 in the future!"

A complete different sound of the same game is given on http://schaaksite.nl/page.php?al=prachtig-tata-steel-tournament-ten-einde. IM Grooten and GM Reinderman were involved in the analysis (besides several engines of course). It is clear to me that h5 is somewhat dubious but I find the evaluation 'lost after 18.g4!' overrated.
  
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bragesjo
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Re: B76 Leko-Van Wely
Reply #3 - 02/05/13 at 09:05:36
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Let se what Chris Ward says "

Played in such a high level event, I was going to be highly critical of the Dutch GM, but although it's true that he doesn't exactly cover himself in glory, 'not so lucky' Luc in this instance seemed to be lost after 18 g4! in the above position, effectively straight from the opening. I suspect that we are going to see more of 16 Nc5 in the future!"
  
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Re: B76 Leko-Van Wely
Reply #2 - 01/28/13 at 08:37:08
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bragesjo wrote on 01/27/13 at 19:07:56:
Van Wely repeated the Dragon again, unfortunnaly he made a complete blunder with 17 .. h5 and was in a bad position and lost.


h5 was already played earlier by Cmilyte see http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1692811. It is certainly not obvious to detect the deficiencies as white +2600 (Anna Muzychuk) was not able to capitalize. I wouldn't be surprised if Karjakin had 18.g4 already at home during the preparation on the board.

Personally calling moves like h5 blunders because an engine shows the evaluation goes up, is not very gentle to say the least. I call h5 a human inaccurancy but not a blunder.

P.s. One month later the 2 players Muzychuk and Cmilyte played each other again with the same colours and the same opening. Guess what happened?
http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1693121
  
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bragesjo
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Re: B76 Leko-Van Wely
Reply #1 - 01/27/13 at 19:07:56
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Van Wely repeated the Dragon again, unfortunnaly he made a complete blunder with 17 .. h5 and was in a bad position and lost.

  
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bragesjo
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B76 Leko-Van Wely
01/26/13 at 12:51:32
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This game was played yesterday. I am not shure where black actually went wrong.
Any opinions?


  
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