Normal Topic A Dutch system with an accelerated ...b6 (Read 6805 times)
kylemeister
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Re: A Dutch system with an accelerated ...b6
Reply #5 - 03/04/13 at 06:27:04
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George Jempty wrote on 03/04/13 at 05:34:46:

Ironically just yesterday in a FIDE-rated game I was black and against Bird's I played 1. f4 d5  2. Nf3 Bg4  3. e3 Nd7  4. Be2 Ngf6  5. b3 Bxf3  6. Bxf3 e5 and I was liking my position versus the comparable system I'm considering in the Dutch.


Incidentally that was given as equal by O'Kelly, not long before he died.  It put me in mind of the possibility of ...c6 and ...Qc7 before ...Bxf3 and ...e5, as in a game Romanishin-(a very young) Kasparov.
  
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George Jempty
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Re: A Dutch system with an accelerated ...b6
Reply #4 - 03/04/13 at 05:34:46
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Schaakhamster wrote on 02/28/13 at 14:59:41:
Nc3 is one of those aggressive and dangerous variations against the Dutch. I doubt that black has enough time to play b6 without getting in trouble. To my limited knowledge b6 is only feasible if white hasn't occupied the h1-a8 diagonal and if he can't force through e4 before black can set up his bishop on b7. 

Something like 1. d4 f5 2. c4 Nf6 3. Nc3 e6 4. e3 b6 5. Nf3


I would agree 2...b6?! against 2. Nc3 is probably asking for it.  I think however it is more feasible after 2...Nf6  3. Bg5 and then 3...b6.

Ironically just yesterday in a FIDE-rated game I was black and against Bird's I played 1. f4 d5  2. Nf3 Bg4  3. e3 Nd7  4. Be2 Ngf6  5. b3 Bxf3  6. Bxf3 e5 and I was liking my position versus the comparable system I'm considering in the Dutch.
  
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Re: A Dutch system with an accelerated ...b6
Reply #3 - 02/28/13 at 15:39:41
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I don't find myself on either side of a Dutch very often so I am not in familiar waters.  But, in the original line you would need to be prepared for 4. f3.  I'm not sure what is best for black here but I would like to play white after 4. ... exf3 5. Nxf3.
  
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BabySnake
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Re: A Dutch system with an accelerated ...b6
Reply #2 - 02/28/13 at 15:18:23
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Just a brief comment since I don't know too much about these b6 systems.

You can avoid most of the anti-Dutch setups by playing 1.d4 e6.

But of course you then need to be ready (if white plays 2.e4) to play French or possibly 2...c5 as discussed in Eingorn's rock solid repertoire.

And you can't play the Leningrad - can't see whether you do...
  
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Schaakhamster
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Re: A Dutch system with an accelerated ...b6
Reply #1 - 02/28/13 at 14:59:41
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Nc3 is one of those aggressive and dangerous variations against the Dutch. I doubt that black has enough time to play b6 without getting in trouble. To my limited knowledge b6 is only feasible if white hasn't occupied the h1-a8 diagonal and if he can't force through e4 before black can set up his bishop on b7. 

Something like 1. d4 f5 2. c4 Nf6 3. Nc3 e6 4. e3 b6 5. Nf3
  
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George Jempty
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A Dutch system with an accelerated ...b6
02/28/13 at 14:17:41
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George Jempty wrote on 02/28/13 at 14:17:41:
I've taken up the Dutch in the past few months and one of the things that bothers me is that, against White's various non-main-line variations, Black needs to be prepared with something different against each one.  One thing vs. 2. Nc3, one thing vs. 2. Bg5, etcetera.

A few days ago I drew a titled Italian master on chess.com at G/20 using the Nimzovich variation against the Staunton Gambit (1. d4 f5  2. e4 fxe4  3. Nc3 Nf6  4. Bg5 b6)  and this got me to thinking -- couldn't ...b6 likewise be used as a sort of system against other White lines involving an early Nc3 and/or Bg5, particularly on the second move?

Yesterday I played 2...b6 vs. 2. Nc3 and my opponent attempted an outright refutation: 3. e4 fxe4  4. Qh5+.  This however shouldn't yield much after 4...g6  5. Qe5 Nf6  6. Nxe4 (6. Nd5 Nc6  7. Nxf6+ Kf7) Bg7.  Or if 4. Nxe4 Nf6 (but not 4...Bb7??  5. Qh5+) -- I've determined the key for Black is, ironically, often delaying ...Bb7, for instance if now 5. Ng5 e6 first.

I realize there are many pitfalls for Black if White plays perfectly, for instance I've worked out the following line where Black seems to just barely be holding.  But still is there benefit to playing ...b6 as part of a system, even in the short term, just to become accustomed to handling these types of positions?  And/or maybe the immediate 2...b6 is more viable against 2. Bg5 though not necessarily against 2. Nc3, where perhaps it needs to be prepared with 2...Nf6 and if then 3. Bg5 b6!?

Thanks for your consideration


  
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