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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Vienna or 4 knights with g3 (Read 26910 times)
Smyslov_Fan
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Re: Vienna or 4 knights with g3
Reply #11 - 03/03/13 at 07:13:11
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It really would help if you explained which move order you are talking about.
  
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Pantu
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Re: Vienna or 4 knights with g3
Reply #10 - 03/02/13 at 19:17:04
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Ok, good to know Smiley I might still delve into that in future as I do find it interesting.
  
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Re: Vienna or 4 knights with g3
Reply #9 - 03/02/13 at 19:12:08
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Quote:
Are you sure you aren't thinking of 1 e4 e5 2 f4 exf4 3 d4 Qh4+ 4 Ke2?  Things seem to be a bit different with the knights out since 4 Ke2 d5 isn't really working in the Vienna move order and 4 Ke2 d6 5 Nf3 Bg4 6 Bxf4 Bxf3+ forces 7 Kxf3 in the pure KG move order.  With the knights on c3 and c6 white can take back gxf3 since Qxf4 is met by Nd5...

It might be there is something I don't know. It's also true it's not clear if white even in the Vienna lines.


No, I was thinking of the Vienna version.  For example I was reminded of Keene and Goodman writing in the 1980s that 5...d6 6. Nf3 Bg4 "firmly refutes White's play."  Apparently some theory has revolved around a game Barle-Portisch 1975 which continued 7. Bxf4 O-O-O 8. Ke3 Qh5 9. Be2 g5 10. Nxg5 Nf6.  Here I see a book from a few years ago thinking 11. Rf1 is fine, but not mentioning 11...Rg8 (given years earlier by Nunn as leading to -/+).

  
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Pantu
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Re: Vienna or 4 knights with g3
Reply #8 - 03/02/13 at 18:51:08
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kylemeister wrote on 03/02/13 at 18:39:41:
I have usually seen that Steinitz line considered clearly better for Black.


Are you sure you aren't thinking of 1 e4 e5 2 f4 exf4 3 d4 Qh4+ 4 Ke2?  Things seem to be a bit different with the knights out since 4 Ke2 d5 isn't really working in the Vienna move order and 4 Ke2 d6 5 Nf3 Bg4 6 Bxf4 Bxf3+ forces 7 Kxf3 in the pure KG move order.  With the knights on c3 and c6 white can take back gxf3 since Qxf4 is met by Nd5...

It might be there is something I don't know. It's also true it's not clear if white even in the Vienna lines.
  
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Re: Vienna or 4 knights with g3
Reply #7 - 03/02/13 at 18:39:41
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I have usually seen that Steinitz line considered clearly better for Black.
  
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Pantu
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Re: Vienna or 4 knights with g3
Reply #6 - 03/02/13 at 17:59:21
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ChessPub is an obvious resource, especially from the old days with Paul Motwani.  I seem to remember that in one of his books (H.O.T. Chess or C.O.O.L. Chess or S.T.A.R chess?) he analyses the Vienna with g3.

One minor point about the Vienna that perhaps hasn't been mentioned is that it avoids the Phildor/Latvian/Petroff but whether that is good or bad depends on your point of view.

Slightly off topic, but if I was looking at playing the Vienna I would have to investigate 1 e4 e5 2 Nc3 Nc6 3 f4 exf4 4 d4!? Qh4+ 5 Ke2 when I think white might just be doing quite well but I haven't ever looked at the official theory.
  
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Markovich
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Re: Vienna or 4 knights with g3
Reply #5 - 03/02/13 at 15:31:07
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Either way, it's a game of chess.  But g3 in the Vienna more obviously makes sense, to me anyway, than the Glek 4 Knights.   
« Last Edit: 03/02/13 at 18:39:11 by Markovich »  

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Re: Vienna or 4 knights with g3
Reply #4 - 03/02/13 at 15:07:06
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As I recall, the Glek system was also treated by Glek in a pair of Yearbook articles in the '90s.
  
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Vass
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Re: Vienna or 4 knights with g3
Reply #3 - 03/02/13 at 12:42:17
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Well, I've forgotten to mention the books that treat the so-called Glek system (4.g3...) in the Four Knights. Here they are:

1. John Nunn "New Ideas In The Four Knights" (Batsford, 1993)
2. Jan Pinski "The Four Knights" (Batsford, 2003)
3. Cyrus Lakdawala "The Four Knights: Move By Move" (Everyman, 2012)

In addition, I attach a file with all the Glek games (1990-2011) with 4.g3... Delete the .txt extension of the file and open the resulting .cbv file in a Chessbase program.  Wink
  

Glek_System_cbv.txt ( 18 KB | Downloads )
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Re: Vienna or 4 knights with g3
Reply #2 - 03/02/13 at 12:15:02
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Mtal wrote on 03/02/13 at 05:35:14:
Or do they pretty much transpose to each other?

No. On obvious but important issue is that in the Vienna 3.g3 White still can play Nge2. At the other hand the Vienna 3.g3 offers Black some extra options. The three most important ones are setups with ...c6, the symmetrical 2.Nc3 Nc6 3.g3 g6 and the pseudo-KG 2.Nc3 Nc6 3.g3 f5.
Your answers depend on your judgment of these (and if I have forgotten some, other) options.

The Complete Vienna is far from complete (even to 1995 standards) and should be called An Introduction to the Vienna. As such it's pretty good.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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Re: Vienna or 4 knights with g3
Reply #1 - 03/02/13 at 09:48:18
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I've been playing Vienna with g3 OTB for many years and therefore I'm biased, so I can't be objective about the right choice, I think..
Anyway, as for the book list, there you have it:

1. Alexander Konstantinopolsky & Vladimir Lepeshkin "The Tournament's Player Repertoire Of Openings: Vienna Game" (Batsford, 1986)
2. Mikhail Tseitlin & Igor Glazkov "The Complete Vienna" (Batsford, 1995)
3. Gary Lane "Vienna Game" (Everyman, 2000)

I never read a book from this list, though. The only book I've read about the Vienna game was:
Александр Константинопольский & Владимир Лепешкин "Венская Партия" (Москва "Физкультура и Спорт", 1989) in Russian language. A fantastic reading, by the way..  Wink
  
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Vienna or 4 knights with g3
03/02/13 at 05:35:14
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Hi all,

Looking for some advice on the Vienna or 4 Knights with g3. Is one better than the other? Or do they pretty much transpose to each other? How are the positions in general? Any books reconmended on studying these?

Thanks.
  
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