Both the d3 system and the Worral make it a lot easier on black to play their opening.  if white will never play d4 the real threats of the Spanish are gone and you give black a free hand to equalize or win the game.  Sticking with the main lines and the a4 anti Marshall you are walking on the shoulders of giants.  whereas in the d3 you are relying on your opponent to mess up to win.

Looking at the correspondence games is how I reached my conclusion in regards to the Marshall. Those games do enough to make one believe it equalizes by force, and there's nothing white can do about it.

Depressing, to say the least.

One of the Anti-Marshalls has to be better than that, or even the early d3 stuff.

Yes that's the difference - there's no doubt at all that the main line Marshall is very challenging indeed for both sides. Just look at all the concrete theory......

It'll be more a question of whether there's anything that's still genuinely usable against really well prepared opposition.

MNb wrote on 05/01/13 at 00:09:40:


Either the answer is yes or it's time to take up 1.d4.

I had chalked up the rising popularity of d3 entirely due to the Marshall.

I would imagine there are a number of the super-elite that would kill to find a convincing advantage against it, instead of being bombarded with pro-black novelties that also equalize.

It's a game of chess, and of course, you can win any given game of chess.  But it's not critical, sez I.  I didn't say you have to outrate your openent to win any given game of chess with this system; I said you had to outrate him to have an expectation of doing so (or more precisely, an expectation of a plus score).  So I am not impressed that someone has used this to defeat higher-rated players.  Lev Zilbermintz has used the BDG to defeat dozens of players that outrate him.

Either d3 in the Spanish (in normal settings such as after 3...Nf6) is equal, or 100 years of Spanish theory is down the toilet, dear chessfriends.  And I find the latter proposition much easier to reject.  I don't know why anyone would be impressed by Carlsen winning with this.  Of course, his play is generally quite impressive.  But he wins with a whole host of unchallenging systems, for crying out loud.  "White according to Carlson" could not be written, not with a straight face, anyway.  

Play the d3 Spanish by all means.  Play the Italian with d3, for all I care!  It's your game.  White is White in either case, and Black's game isn't a cakewalk.  But I assert that both challenge Black less than the main lines of the Spanish.

While I agree that Carlsen is lazy in opening prepeations, he plays several openings that are very practical.

In my experience with the white pieces you dont have to outrate them for this system to work, I have defeated players that outrate me siginfically.

Also, some of the older players at my local club does not consider Ruy Lopez with d3 to be a "true" Ruy Lopez, they think it is an other opening!

bragesjo wrote on 04/26/13 at 12:39:01:


Carlsen is Carlsen, and that's why he wins with the d3 Spanish.  If someone expects to outrate his opponent and win by just "playing chess," with no theoretical edge at all, he can take up d3 on the same basis.

Theoretically White's system interesting; it's a game of chess; but it makes no pretense of fighting for an opening advantage.   The idea that the big boys have discovered something special for White is a joke.  I am sure the have discovered some interesting ideas, just not ideas that seriously threaten Black.

Carlsen plays numerous unchallenging systems and then wins because he is Carlsen.  It would be idiocy to immitate his play saying, "Ooh, Carlsen plays this, it must be good for White!"

JEH wrote on 04/26/13 at 10:13:27:

My thinking is almost precisely the same as yours. After looking at McDonald's excellent Move by Move book, my "Spanish with training wheels" (US for stabilisers) plan has been Bishop's opening (aiming for an Italian) -> Italian (learning other 1.e4 e5 Nf3 responses) -> d3 Spanish -> "real" Spanish, though I'm still on step 1. But the current popularity of the d3 Spanish (is this the new mainline?) makes me wonder if I should stop there...

JEH wrote on 04/24/13 at 12:49:42:


Although my link was a little tongue in cheek, there's an element of advice in there.

My first 1. e4 opening was the Scotch, then later adding the Italian (playing Bc4 after ed as well) because I didn't think I was ready for the Lopez. I'm very pleased to have got a work out with those openings in my early days, and it's also helped playing 1. ...e5 as Black.

Adopting the Lopez as White came much much later. Back in the day I used to look at White's positions and not understand why with pieces grovelling and wriggling around on the back two ranks and Black's pieces all developed on nice squares why White was supposed to be better. When the penny dropped, I thought I was ready for the Lopez.

I started taking it all on, mainline, but with an h3 anti-Marshall, a la Khalifmann. But although I had interesting games, I thought I'd bitten off too much, and started retreating into initially Qe2 Worrall systems, and then d3 systems. 

Going back over it again, if I could reboot this process, I think I'd start with a 5. d3 Slowpez (which seems to me to have a little more synergy with moving onto mainlines later than 5. Qe2), and then add in mainline systems one by one. So once ready for the Open Lopez, I can go say 6. d3 (or 6. Qe2), and so on, pushing d3 (or Qe2) later into the game, if at all.

If I was going to think this even further back, and say I didn't want to start my e4 e5 career with the Scotch or the Italian etc, then d4 based Lopez's are another possibility.

If you are going to use the learning Lopez with stabilisers approach, then d3 or Qe2 could be just as good. You could use McDonald's book for d3 and Greet's book for Qe2.

But considering how much these slower systems, especially d3 are cropping up at the highest levels, then maybe they are stabilisers at all 

There's no reason to play Qe2. It just misplaces both the queen and the rook. ...d5 lines equalize forcefully and the ...d6 lines are worse for white than the usual Chigorin as the Qe2 is misplaced (Nbd2 can always be met by ...Nh5! as Nxe5 then just loses to ...Nf4 hitting the queen). Honestly, I think Qe2 objectively deserves a question mark. If you want to be lazy play d3 lines.

I believe this therapist also offers counselling for those with Qe2 issues...

http://www.chesspub.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1341393550


Covers the French too

The point is disputed here with depressing frequency, but failure to understand how to play in open positions is quite similar to not having a game at all, and the avoidance of these positions on the basis that one isn't comfortable with them is fatal to one's chess imorovement. I wouldn't recommend the Spanish at all to someone not yet able to play well in such positions.

I don't think that 5.Qe2 is played so much to avoid the Open as to avoid a vast body of Spanish theory in general. That includes the Open but also the Closed and the Marshall.

I like the Open myself, but I doubt that many Spanish practioners lay awake at night worrying about it. There is little doubt that 5.O-O is critical and best.