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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) What to play against 1.c4 e5 2.Nc3 c5!? (Read 10096 times)
fling
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Re: What to play against 1.c4 e5 2.Nc3 c5!?
Reply #10 - 03/07/13 at 20:55:20
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kylemeister wrote on 03/07/13 at 17:53:55:
fling wrote on 03/07/13 at 17:42:05:
12. Bd2 seems to be a new move to me, and the idea of taking with the pawn on d5 is interesting, as White has mainly played Nxd5.

But is ...Nd4, and not e.g. ...Ne7, the best move?


I notice that ...Ne7 has been given as leading to equality with White having in Rb1 instead of Bd2, pertaining to a game Granda-Spangenburg from twenty years ago.


Good news, as I play this as Black. Well, also as White, but with a3 and ...a5 inserted. That is Marin's (and Khalifman's IIRC) repertoire, btw. Black has some improvements on this. Anyway, I couldn't really see any benefits of playing ...Nd4 instead of ...Ne7. And as far as I can tell, White has almost never recaptured on d5 with the pawn, btw.
  
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Re: What to play against 1.c4 e5 2.Nc3 c5!?
Reply #9 - 03/07/13 at 17:53:55
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fling wrote on 03/07/13 at 17:42:05:
12. Bd2 seems to be a new move to me, and the idea of taking with the pawn on d5 is interesting, as White has mainly played Nxd5.

But is ...Nd4, and not e.g. ...Ne7, the best move?


I notice that ...Ne7 has been given as leading to equality with White having in Rb1 instead of Bd2, pertaining to a game Granda-Spangenburg from twenty years ago.
  
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fling
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Re: What to play against 1.c4 e5 2.Nc3 c5!?
Reply #8 - 03/07/13 at 17:46:08
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Also, Palliser in Beating Unusual Chess Openings gives the plan of immediate counterplay on the queenside with 7 ...a6!?, which I find interesting as well.
  
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Re: What to play against 1.c4 e5 2.Nc3 c5!?
Reply #7 - 03/07/13 at 17:43:17
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Well, 3. Nf3 with the idea of e3 and d4 certainly avoids a Botvinnik, though at least some sources have thought it shouldn't be better for White.
  
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Re: What to play against 1.c4 e5 2.Nc3 c5!?
Reply #6 - 03/07/13 at 17:42:05
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12. Bd2 seems to be a new move to me, and the idea of taking with the pawn on d5 is interesting, as White has mainly played Nxd5.

But is ...Nd4, and not e.g. ...Ne7, the best move?
  
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raja
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Re: What to play against 1.c4 e5 2.Nc3 c5!?
Reply #5 - 03/07/13 at 17:30:07
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MartinC wrote on 03/07/13 at 10:51:08:
e3 ^ a quick d4 perhaps? iirc that's certainly a major reaction to black doing this with Nf6/Nf3 included and black not getting a tempo when going e4 seems like it should help white somehow. 

Of course, with how the game is, it might also not help at all Smiley


e3 ...d4  does not seem to get any advantage for white... Sad

and Nf3 Nf6 is NOT included....  1.c4 e5 2.Nc3 c5!?   
  
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raja
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Re: What to play against 1.c4 e5 2.Nc3 c5!?
Reply #4 - 03/07/13 at 17:22:52
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I want to know how to avoid Botvinik setup....because i wanna play early d4 break....thanks to all.
  
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tony37
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Re: What to play against 1.c4 e5 2.Nc3 c5!?
Reply #3 - 03/07/13 at 14:19:32
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Vass wrote on 03/07/13 at 14:06:19:
And look at this 14. cxd5!?... idea with a perfect play  for white on both flanks!
Shocked
Very impressive!

Marin mentions this idea (in a similar position)
  
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Re: What to play against 1.c4 e5 2.Nc3 c5!?
Reply #2 - 03/07/13 at 14:06:19
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The standard approach against the early Botvinnik setup is to play 1. c4 e5 2. Nc3 c5 3. g3 Nc6 4. Bg2 g6 5. Nf3 Bg7 6. O-O Nge7 7. Ne1 O-O 8. Nc2 d6 9. d3 *
Recently I've found a correspondence game that impressed me very much. After a transposition the game continues with the standard 9...Be6 with Qd7 and Bh3 next, as shown below:



And look at this 14. cxd5!?... idea with a perfect play  for white on both flanks!
Shocked
Very impressive!
  
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MartinC
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Re: What to play against 1.c4 e5 2.Nc3 c5!?
Reply #1 - 03/07/13 at 10:51:08
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e3 ^ a quick d4 perhaps? iirc that's certainly a major reaction to black doing this with Nf6/Nf3 included and black not getting a tempo when going e4 seems like it should help white somehow. 

Of course, with how the game is, it might also not help at all Smiley
  
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raja
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What to play against 1.c4 e5 2.Nc3 c5!?
03/07/13 at 09:57:19
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what if your opponent plays e5 first then plays c5 in order to avoid early d4 break lines by white...is there any solution? SmileyBlacks plan is to employ Botvinnik setup with e5 c5 d6 g6 Bg7 Ne7 Nc6 etc
  
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