(UTC)
Latest Updates:
  ChessPub Forum › Chess Publishing Openings › Flank Openings › English 1...e5 › What to play against 1.c4 e5 2.Nc3 c5!?
(Moderators: Hadron, proustiskeen)
‹ Previous Topic | Next Topic ›
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1
Topic Tools
Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) What to play against 1.c4 e5 2.Nc3 c5!? (Read 11154 times)
fling
God Member
*****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 1591
Joined: 01/21/11
Gender: Male
Re: What to play against 1.c4 e5 2.Nc3 c5!?
Reply #10 - 03/07/13 at 20:55:20
Post Tools
kylemeister wrote on 03/07/13 at 17:53:55:
fling wrote on 03/07/13 at 17:42:05:
12. Bd2 seems to be a new move to me, and the idea of taking with the pawn on d5 is interesting, as White has mainly played Nxd5.

But is ...Nd4, and not e.g. ...Ne7, the best move?


I notice that ...Ne7 has been given as leading to equality with White having in Rb1 instead of Bd2, pertaining to a game Granda-Spangenburg from twenty years ago.


Good news, as I play this as Black. Well, also as White, but with a3 and ...a5 inserted. That is Marin's (and Khalifman's IIRC) repertoire, btw. Black has some improvements on this. Anyway, I couldn't really see any benefits of playing ...Nd4 instead of ...Ne7. And as far as I can tell, White has almost never recaptured on d5 with the pawn, btw.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
kylemeister
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 4977
Location: USA
Joined: 10/24/05
Re: What to play against 1.c4 e5 2.Nc3 c5!?
Reply #9 - 03/07/13 at 17:53:55
Post Tools
fling wrote on 03/07/13 at 17:42:05:
12. Bd2 seems to be a new move to me, and the idea of taking with the pawn on d5 is interesting, as White has mainly played Nxd5.

But is ...Nd4, and not e.g. ...Ne7, the best move?


I notice that ...Ne7 has been given as leading to equality with White having in Rb1 instead of Bd2, pertaining to a game Granda-Spangenburg from twenty years ago.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
fling
God Member
*****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 1591
Joined: 01/21/11
Gender: Male
Re: What to play against 1.c4 e5 2.Nc3 c5!?
Reply #8 - 03/07/13 at 17:46:08
Post Tools
Also, Palliser in Beating Unusual Chess Openings gives the plan of immediate counterplay on the queenside with 7 ...a6!?, which I find interesting as well.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
kylemeister
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 4977
Location: USA
Joined: 10/24/05
Re: What to play against 1.c4 e5 2.Nc3 c5!?
Reply #7 - 03/07/13 at 17:43:17
Post Tools
Well, 3. Nf3 with the idea of e3 and d4 certainly avoids a Botvinnik, though at least some sources have thought it shouldn't be better for White.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
fling
God Member
*****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 1591
Joined: 01/21/11
Gender: Male
Re: What to play against 1.c4 e5 2.Nc3 c5!?
Reply #6 - 03/07/13 at 17:42:05
Post Tools
12. Bd2 seems to be a new move to me, and the idea of taking with the pawn on d5 is interesting, as White has mainly played Nxd5.

But is ...Nd4, and not e.g. ...Ne7, the best move?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
raja
Full Member
***
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 125
Location: India
Joined: 11/15/10
Gender: Male
Re: What to play against 1.c4 e5 2.Nc3 c5!?
Reply #5 - 03/07/13 at 17:30:07
Post Tools
MartinC wrote on 03/07/13 at 10:51:08:
e3 ^ a quick d4 perhaps? iirc that's certainly a major reaction to black doing this with Nf6/Nf3 included and black not getting a tempo when going e4 seems like it should help white somehow. 

Of course, with how the game is, it might also not help at all Smiley


e3 ...d4  does not seem to get any advantage for white... Sad

and Nf3 Nf6 is NOT included....  1.c4 e5 2.Nc3 c5!?   
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
raja
Full Member
***
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 125
Location: India
Joined: 11/15/10
Gender: Male
Re: What to play against 1.c4 e5 2.Nc3 c5!?
Reply #4 - 03/07/13 at 17:22:52
Post Tools
I want to know how to avoid Botvinik setup....because i wanna play early d4 break....thanks to all.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
tony37
God Member
*****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 619
Joined: 10/16/10
Re: What to play against 1.c4 e5 2.Nc3 c5!?
Reply #3 - 03/07/13 at 14:19:32
Post Tools
Vass wrote on 03/07/13 at 14:06:19:
And look at this 14. cxd5!?... idea with a perfect play  for white on both flanks!
Shocked
Very impressive!

Marin mentions this idea (in a similar position)
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Vass
God Member
*****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 1105
Joined: 06/22/11
Re: What to play against 1.c4 e5 2.Nc3 c5!?
Reply #2 - 03/07/13 at 14:06:19
Post Tools
The standard approach against the early Botvinnik setup is to play 1. c4 e5 2. Nc3 c5 3. g3 Nc6 4. Bg2 g6 5. Nf3 Bg7 6. O-O Nge7 7. Ne1 O-O 8. Nc2 d6 9. d3 *
Recently I've found a correspondence game that impressed me very much. After a transposition the game continues with the standard 9...Be6 with Qd7 and Bh3 next, as shown below:



And look at this 14. cxd5!?... idea with a perfect play  for white on both flanks!
Shocked
Very impressive!
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
MartinC
God Member
*****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 2115
Joined: 07/24/06
Re: What to play against 1.c4 e5 2.Nc3 c5!?
Reply #1 - 03/07/13 at 10:51:08
Post Tools
e3 ^ a quick d4 perhaps? iirc that's certainly a major reaction to black doing this with Nf6/Nf3 included and black not getting a tempo when going e4 seems like it should help white somehow. 

Of course, with how the game is, it might also not help at all Smiley
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
raja
Full Member
***
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 125
Location: India
Joined: 11/15/10
Gender: Male
What to play against 1.c4 e5 2.Nc3 c5!?
03/07/13 at 09:57:19
Post Tools
what if your opponent plays e5 first then plays c5 in order to avoid early d4 break lines by white...is there any solution? SmileyBlacks plan is to employ Botvinnik setup with e5 c5 d6 g6 Bg7 Ne7 Nc6 etc
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1
Topic Tools
‹ Previous Topic | Next Topic ›
Bookmarks: del.icio.us Digg Facebook Google Google+ Linked in reddit StumbleUpon Twitter Yahoo
 
  « Board Index ‹ Board Top  

ChessPub Forum » Powered by YaBB 2.6.12!
YaBB Forum Software © 2000-2026. All Rights Reserved.

Valid RSS Valid XHTML Valid CSS Powered by Perl Source Forge