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Normal Topic Taimanov English Attack 8...Bb4 9.f3 Ne7 (Read 3720 times)
ErictheRed
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Re: Taimanov English Attack 8...Bb4 9.f3 Ne7
Reply #4 - 05/15/13 at 19:51:53
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Blueguitar, you're analyzing this from White's point of view--don't you realize that Black will get full equality?  Take up the Black cause if you want to see White earning a small edge  Wink.

Incidentally, my own completely off-the-cuff impression is that maybe White can improve on 13.Kb1.  I'm reminded of John Nunn saying that this is often a "lazy move."  It's never really a bad move in a practical game, but often there are better concrete moves in the position. 

Without checking with an engine, I'd be tempted to try 13.g3!?, switching to more "positional" play and intending something like 13...Bb7 14.Bh3 Rd8, just getting all your bits out.  I'm not suggesting White has an edge, but it may be to his advantage to force Black to put the Rook on d8.  It's important to make sure that Black can't play ...d7-d5 very easily, of course--you'll have to check to make sure that the Bxf6 and Nxb5 tricks work (which means that you'll need to play Kb1 at some point).  Hmmm...maybe 13.Kb1 Ba5 and now 14.g3!?.  14.g3 b4 15.Na4 b3 16.Nec3 may be something to worry about, so perhaps 13.g3 after all, throwing in Bxf6 somewhere earlier to have Nc3-d5 in response to ...b5-b4.  13.g3 Ba5?! 14.Bxf6 gf 15.Bh3 looks decent for White to me, so in the other line maybe 13.g3 Bb7 14.Bh3 Rd8 15.Kb1 or 15.Bxf6.

Well, that's my stream-of-consciousness thought process if I had been presented this position on a board in a tournament game with no prior preparation Tongue.

At least it's an idea, and you seem to be searching for ideas.  In main-line openings I don't think you can expect an edge; the goal is to have some new idea that can be played as early as possible and familiarize yourself with it ahead of time.  You'll get a practical advantage, and usually your idea is of more or less the same quality as the "main line." 
  
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blueguitar322
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Re: Taimanov English Attack 8...Bb4 9.f3 Ne7
Reply #3 - 05/15/13 at 18:18:24
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MartinC wrote on 05/15/13 at 08:29:47:
My basic thought is that you aren't getting a guaranteed major advantage against a major black opening (which this is!), so its whether you like the 'feel' of these positions or not.

The secondary one is that a lot of people would be very happy to have a position this unbalanced/interesting as their main road block Smiley
(And that you aren't likely to get this very often in practice. Unless of course you're playing correspondence or some such.).

If you don't specifically like the computers main choice then find some other reasonable idea for white to play around with. Presumably a few options. If you don't like anything then try something else....

I'm always happy to see 1...c5 because, even if there's no route to imbalances, there's always interesting, unbalanced play. I started this thread because I'd looked at this position a while, and was curious if anyone else had a novel idea.  I'm certainly not complaining, but what's the fun of studying openings with a forum like ChessPub if you can't chase the mythical += as White!  Grin
  
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MartinC
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Re: Taimanov English Attack 8...Bb4 9.f3 Ne7
Reply #2 - 05/15/13 at 08:29:47
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My basic thought is that you aren't getting a guaranteed major advantage against a major black opening (which this is!), so its whether you like the 'feel' of these positions or not.

The secondary one is that a lot of people would be very happy to have a position this unbalanced/interesting as their main road block Smiley
(And that you aren't likely to get this very often in practice. Unless of course you're playing correspondence or some such.).

If you don't specifically like the computers main choice then find some other reasonable idea for white to play around with. Presumably a few options. If you don't like anything then try something else....
  
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gewgaw
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Re: Taimanov English Attack 8...Bb4 9.f3 Ne7
Reply #1 - 05/14/13 at 19:49:24
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Stockfish 3 plays the same line with very small advantage for white, nearly equal.
All in all this line is too complicated for me, something wrong with 9. ...Ne5 or 0-0, but 9. ...Ne7 looked somewhat artificial for me!?
  

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blueguitar322
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Taimanov English Attack 8...Bb4 9.f3 Ne7
05/13/13 at 15:04:00
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I'm working through my Taimanov repertoire (as White) and am stuck on the following position:



The reason for 12...h5! is because the previous main line continued 12...Bb7 13.Kb1 Ba5 14.Bxf6 gxf6 15.Qh6 with pressure on the kingside holes in the pawn structure.  12...h5! prevents this queen intrusion.

Karjakin-Nisipeanu, Foros 2008 continued 14.Nc1 and now both 14...b4 and Palliser's suggestion of 14...Bxc3!? seem to give Black reasonable positions.

Motylev-Maiwald, Rijeka 2010 continued 14.Qd6 Qxd6 15.Rxd6 Bc7 16.Rd1 Bb7 and again Black looks fine according to Palliser. See ChessPub for more detail, I'm not sure how much I can share as a subscriber.

Khalifman's series doesn't consider 12...h5.

Just for fun, I ran Houdini through an overnight positional analysis starting at move 14 and after 8 hours or so it recommended 14.Nxf6 gxf6 15.Nd5 Nxd5 16.Qxd5 Bb7 17.Qb3 +0.19/21.  Not sure I'm crazy about this position either.

Any thoughts?
  
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