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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Playing the Trompowsky by Richard Pert (Read 48958 times)
TalJechin
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Re: Playing the Trompowsky by Richard Pert
Reply #44 - 08/14/14 at 06:55:10
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Just a quick question, does the double gambit of b2 & c3 followed by Bf4-c7 have a name? A friend of mine kept referring to it as the Vaganian gambit, but as far as i know that one just gives the b2-pawn with a Nc3 and Bf4-d2 set-up. Or are both ideas of Vaganian?
  
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Bibs
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Re: Playing the Trompowsky by Richard Pert
Reply #43 - 06/30/14 at 00:41:34
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Bump
Richard...?
  
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tipau
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Re: Playing the Trompowsky by Richard Pert
Reply #42 - 06/29/14 at 19:11:48
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Hi Richard - Aveskulov's line is 9...Qb6 (not 9...Qa5) with the idea 10.0-0 Rd8 11.d5 e6!? or 10.h3 Bxe2 11.Nxe2 Rd8 12.c3 e5! as in Laurie - Tsesarsky, 1997
  

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IMRichardPert
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Re: Playing the Trompowsky by Richard Pert
Reply #41 - 06/29/14 at 15:50:30
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Hi all, I had a recent request to comment on this chat (with specific reference to the Aveskulov line). As I am new to using the forum, I have only just seen this chat.  Unfortunately I was not aware of the Aveskulov line when I wrote the book, which is a shame as I tried to get hold of all the relevant material before finishing the book (this one obviously slipped through the net). I still haven't got the Aveskulov book so if someone could tell me the recommendation against my stuff then I would be happy to have a more detailed look.  Just from glancing through the forum chats, the line appears to run 5.Bd3 cxd4 6.exd4 Nc6 7.Bxe4 dxe4 8. Ne2 Bg4 9.Nbc3 Qa5 10.h3 Bh5 11. 0-0 and here I covered 11. ...0-0-0 where I recommended 12.Qe1N.  Am I right in thinking Aveskulov line is 11...Rd8 and if so does he mention 12.Qe1N with the same idea as against 0-0-0. Ie 11...Rd8 12.Qe1 Nxd4 13.Nxd4 Rxd4 14. Nxe4 Qxe1 15. Rfxe1 with slightly more comfortable play for white due to his lead in development and queenside majority.  Look forward to hearing from someone who owns the book and I'll have a more detailed look.  Cheers.
  
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leavenfish
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Re: Playing the Trompowsky by Richard Pert
Reply #40 - 02/20/14 at 05:28:20
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Ah, thanks. If that's all...it's nothing special for Black. 5. Bd3 cd4, 6. ed4 Nc6, 7. Be4 de4, 8. Ne2 Bg4, 9. Nbc3 is probably okay.
  
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ErictheRed
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Re: Playing the Trompowsky by Richard Pert
Reply #39 - 02/17/14 at 14:10:36
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leavenfish wrote on 02/15/14 at 22:06:27:
What exactly is Aveskulov's line. I am afraid I do not have the book.


Read reply #35.
  
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leavenfish
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Re: Playing the Trompowsky by Richard Pert
Reply #38 - 02/15/14 at 22:06:27
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lnn2 wrote on 12/09/13 at 06:12:34:
I gave up the Tromp with White because of Aveskulov's lines- its not even good as a surprise weapon anymore because the Nd5 idea referred to by Flig is such a dampener (and I'm also not convinced by Pert's 4. e3 c5 5. Bd3)


What exactly is Aveskulov's line. I am afraid I do not have the book.
  
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IMJohnCox
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Re: Playing the Trompowsky by Richard Pert
Reply #37 - 12/09/13 at 11:29:35
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Well, I can offer one big improvement for Black on an RP blitz game in the book;

1 d4 Nf6 2 Bg5 c5 3 Nc3 (don’t ask) cxd4 4 Qxd4 Nc6 5 Qh4 e6 6 000 Be7 7 e4 00 8 f4 h6 9 Nf3 hxg5 10 Nxg5 Qa5 11 e5 Nxe5  12 fxe5 Qxe5  13 Bd3, and here Black proceeded with something inept – 13…g6?, I think – and naturally lost, whereas after 13…Nh5 White would more or less have to resign.

It’s true that this is not so important, arguably because 3 Nc3 is an absurd move in the first place and 7…00?! certainly is, but mainly because White has much better than 13 Bd3 and is in fact a fair bit better anyway. And of course anyone can put other people’s blitz games on a computer and locate ‘improvements’. Still, it’s quite a pretty trick by Black, so perhaps worth mentioning.
  
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lnn2
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Re: Playing the Trompowsky by Richard Pert
Reply #36 - 12/09/13 at 06:12:34
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I gave up the Tromp with White because of Aveskulov's lines- its not even good as a surprise weapon anymore because the Nd5 idea referred to by Flig is such a dampener (and I'm also not convinced by Pert's 4. e3 c5 5. Bd3)

2... d5 is the best defence theoretically but Tromp players are happy with Bxf6, and can at least argue that they have a "mirror" exchange ruy which is interesting to play with.
  
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Fllg
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Re: Playing the Trompowsky by Richard Pert
Reply #35 - 12/08/13 at 12:28:50
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From what I know Black equalizes fairly easily with 1.d4 Nf6 2.Bg5 Ne4 3.Bf4 d5 but it´s not so easy to play for a win here if White plays without ambition, e.g. with 4.e3 c5 5.c3 Nc6 6.Nf3 Bf5 7.Nbd2 e6 8.Nxe4 Bxe4 9.Bd3 Bxd3 10.Qxd3 Be7 11.0-0 0-0 as given by Aveskulov in Attack with Black is equal (and boring).

On the other hand the plan with Bd3xe4 as suggested by Pert in this line isn´t looking threatening either.

If you have more ambition with Black than you could choose 3...c5 here but this requires certainly more knowledge to avoid being worse in the opening.
  
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Bibs
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Re: Playing the Trompowsky by Richard Pert
Reply #34 - 12/08/13 at 12:22:55
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2...d5!
  
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ANDREW BRETT
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Re: Playing the Trompowsky by Richard Pert
Reply #33 - 12/08/13 at 09:33:50
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After all these new developments, what do you think is the best line for Black against the Tromp ?

Feel free to set up a new thread if that's more appropriate. Smiley
  
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fling
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Re: Playing the Trompowsky by Richard Pert
Reply #32 - 11/09/13 at 16:25:54
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Bibs wrote on 11/09/13 at 15:11:08:
I am all for being critical of texts. But vagueness in a critique is rarely helpful.
Could you give examples of where you disagree to provoke discussion?


Sorry, bibs, no, since I just have been briefly looking at the lines. The way Esserman wrote Mayhem in the Morra I felt was that his main lines are not the best play by Black, instead those lines are sometimes buried in the text in passing (he also mentions that several times in the book). I got the same feeling with the Tromp book -  Basically every line starts or ends with something like "I have new ideas - and White is better". Some of the lines are just blitz games from ICC. That is ok I guess, though, since many lines haven't been tested in regular games. Still, that also gives a feeling something is left out.

Anyway, I am looking forward to reading the book and maybe try Bg5 in my own games.
  
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Bibs
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Re: Playing the Trompowsky by Richard Pert
Reply #31 - 11/09/13 at 15:11:08
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I am all for being critical of texts. But vagueness in a critique is rarely helpful.
Could you give examples of where you disagree to provoke discussion?
  
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fling
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Re: Playing the Trompowsky by Richard Pert
Reply #30 - 11/09/13 at 13:08:02
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I just got the book and haven't started reading it. But I get very suspicious when I see comments all over in the spirit "White is better". If that is the case, it seems like Black's best options are ignored in several lines. Kinda like Esserman's book on the Morra.
  
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