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Normal Topic Problem in the Botvinnik System (Read 6624 times)
Hadron
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Re: Problem in the Botvinnik System
Reply #7 - 07/03/13 at 07:05:17
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Plyo wrote on 06/23/13 at 04:43:32:
What can I do against this line:
1. c4 e5
2. Nc3 Nf6
3. e4 Bc5


Usually, since I want to get a set up of: Nge2 / g3 / Bg2 / d3 / a3 / Rb1 / h3 / Be3, I would continue with 4. d3 but after 4... c6! I'm not sure what white should do.

Any suggestions?

As far as any suggestion goes, it really depends what sort of player you are. Some prefer the slow positional build up as you have given. Certainly in checking what I have on the English 4.d3 seems to be the prescribed move and then the plans after 4…c6 seem to vary. I like 5.Bg5 here.
However  with the given move order you have to look out for Two Knight’s motifs as in say 4.Nge2 then 4…Ng4! which then requires the immediate 5.d4 to avert the obvious pending disaster on f2 and so on.
Again it is a matter of personal taste, I actually like the Two Knights as Black so my preference would be play the more active 4.Nf3 which leaves Black the choice of Ng4, d6 or Nc6. Depending on your level that you are playing at the second  and third replies are the most likely. Prepare for all three but hope for the last, 4…Nc6 because of the move order and with Blacks bishop on c5 it allows 5.Nxe5!
Markovich wrote on 07/01/13 at 03:47:53:
But seriously, I wonder if you should be playing 1.c4 if you expect White's advantage in the line given.

Really? I can’t really comment to much on 4.Nf3 d6 and 4…Ng4?! As I have little on it in my chess theory collection. However there is more than more than enough established theoretical evidence , you can fully expect an advantage after 4…Nc6 5.Nxe5! A Nimzowitsch idea which he used to batter Reti & Yates and draw with Collie. It has also been used by such strong players as Larry Christiansen, Boris Alterman, Kevin Spraggett and Alexander Onischuk…
  

I'm reminded again of something Short wrote recently, approximately "The biggest fallacy in chess is the quasi-religious belief in the primacy of the opening."
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Re: Problem in the Botvinnik System
Reply #6 - 07/01/13 at 03:51:24
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You might also consider 1.c4 e5 2.Nc3 Nf6 3.Nc3 Nc6 4.e4 which isn't a Botvinnik of course but White usually plays g3.  This system was featured for White in Dangerous Weapons: Flank Openings and Chesspublishing has some good games on it.
  
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Re: Problem in the Botvinnik System
Reply #5 - 07/01/13 at 03:47:53
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Plyo wrote on 06/23/13 at 04:43:32:
What can I do against this line:
1. c4 e5
2. Nc3 Nf6
3. e4 Bc5


?

Usually, since I want to get a set up of: Nge2 / g3 / Bg2 / d3 / a3 / Rb1 / h3 / Be3, I would continue with 4. d3 but after 4... c6! I'm not sure what white should do.

Any suggestions?



Yes, 4.e4-e3. But seriously, I wonder if you should be playing 1.c4 if you expect White's advantage in the line given.
  

The Great Oz has spoken!
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Plyo
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Re: Problem in the Botvinnik System
Reply #4 - 06/23/13 at 15:25:53
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We can never have everything can we Cheesy
I played 1.Nf3 a lot to avoid 1...e5 but the problem is that in so many lines of the English white would much prefer to have the knight on e2 and not only in the English the knight prevents those f3/e4 plans.
  
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Re: Problem in the Botvinnik System
Reply #3 - 06/23/13 at 15:14:16
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Yes, avoiding 3.e4 in that situation is your best bet. For comparison, take a look at the most common scenario that sees White select the Botvinnik system:

1.c4 e5 2.Nc3 Nc6 3.g3 g6 4.Bg2 Bg7 5.e4

Here, Black has shunned the opportunity for both ...c6 (though this is less of an issue in my opinion) and ...Bc5, making White's clamping down on the d5-square while simultaneously weakening his own d4-square more reasonable.
  
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Re: Problem in the Botvinnik System
Reply #2 - 06/23/13 at 11:00:50
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maybe you can find Kostens The Dynamic English. still a great book.It will provide you a nice overview.
  
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Re: Problem in the Botvinnik System
Reply #1 - 06/23/13 at 07:42:16
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The Botvinnik system isn't considered a good try for advantage if Black can still put his bishop on c5. So you'd rather play 3.g3 or even 2.g3 and don't commit to e4 so early.

You could then play lines with e3 instead against ...Bc5, but e4 once Black plays ...g6. But Black also has the very respectable Reversed Dragon (3...d5) and the early ...c6 lines, as you can see in the well-known White repertoire books by Marin and Kosten.
  

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Problem in the Botvinnik System
06/23/13 at 04:43:32
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What can I do against this line:
1. c4 e5
2. Nc3 Nf6
3. e4 Bc5


?

Usually, since I want to get a set up of: Nge2 / g3 / Bg2 / d3 / a3 / Rb1 / h3 / Be3, I would continue with 4. d3 but after 4... c6! I'm not sure what white should do.

Any suggestions?
  
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