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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Caro-Kann, Advance Variation, Short Variation (Read 24357 times)
HgMan
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Re: Caro-Kann, Advance Variation, Short Variation
Reply #25 - 09/27/17 at 22:19:57
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This is helpful. But your preference is to play 5...c5 first? I suppose the bigger debate in the Short Variation is when/where/whether Black can get this move in to good effect.
  

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ErictheRed
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Re: Caro-Kann, Advance Variation, Short Variation
Reply #24 - 09/27/17 at 20:28:42
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True mn, the knight picks his circuit based on which squares become available or what squares he can fight for; sometimes it even goes back to e7 and f5--if the light-squared bishops are exchanged, for instance.

What I meant to get across is that move 6 is too early to have a grand plan in mind; the knight is getting out of the way so that Black can complete his development first, then will re-enter play later depending on how things progress.  The hope is that compared to an Advance French for instance, the time lost re-routing the knight is made up for by having an awesome bishop on f5.
  
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Re: Caro-Kann, Advance Variation, Short Variation
Reply #23 - 09/27/17 at 17:25:21
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The Knight on c8, in an ideal world, is going to b6 - where it's generally out of the way, and discourages White's c2-c4 break further. Therefore, White often replies with a4-a5 to stop this. At which point, Black tends to choose an alternative path for the Knight: ...a6 and ...Na7-b5-c7. When White plays c2-c4, as is crucial for Black is the "Closed Short Variation" (without an early ...c5), the Knight can jump to d5.
  
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ErictheRed
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Re: Caro-Kann, Advance Variation, Short Variation
Reply #22 - 09/27/17 at 15:31:34
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I wouldn't personally call 6...Nc8 a waiting move.  Black really is trying to play quickly and develop the rest of his kingside; it's more of an untangling move.  I don't think that there is any particularly deep point behind it, though I'm sure that there are subtle nuances when compared to other lines with ...Nc8 by Black.  I would say that in the Short System in general, play can take on wildly different characteristics, which is what makes it so challenging for both sides.

Caveat that I only have personal experience with 5...c5, and positions such as 6.0-0 Nc6 7.c3 cd 8.cd Nge7 9.Nc3 Nc8 10.Be3 Be7 11.Rc1 Nb6 12.Na4 Nxa4 13.Qxa4 0-0.  Perhaps, as Jupp53 said, Black can take things in an entirely different direction by playing an early ...f6--which I have played as well, but without going ...Ng8-e7-c8 first. 
  
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HgMan
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Re: Caro-Kann, Advance Variation, Short Variation
Reply #21 - 09/27/17 at 12:32:37
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It's funny how, compared with the French, Black solves the riddle of the light-squared bishop in the Caro-Kann (and especially the Advanced), but inherits a problem of what to do with the dark-squared bishop, hence ...Nc8 to clear room and options.

MartinC wrote on 09/27/17 at 08:41:06:
That's definitely something I'm really unsure about to - what is white meant to do if black basically does nothing for a while.

b3 to prepare c4 without conceding d5? Random Q Side expansion cf a4,a5 etc? Trying to utterly stamp on c5 via c3/b4/Nb3? Central consolidation via Ne1, f4, Nf3?


So: a waiting move of sorts? Where it's not yet clear what the central debate will be? It's interesting that the game can really take on wildly different characteristics over the next 5-10 moves.
  

"Luck favours the prepared mind."  --Louis Pasteur
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MartinC
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Re: Caro-Kann, Advance Variation, Short Variation
Reply #20 - 09/27/17 at 08:41:06
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That's definitely something I'm really unsure about to - what is white meant to do if black basically does nothing for a while.

b3 to prepare c4 without conceding d5? Random Q Side expansion cf a4,a5 etc? Trying to utterly stamp on c5 via c3/b4/Nb3? Central consolidation via Ne1, f4, Nf3?
  
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Re: Caro-Kann, Advance Variation, Short Variation
Reply #19 - 09/27/17 at 08:34:59
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HgMan wrote on 09/27/17 at 02:05:50:
Getting the knight out of the way as quickly as possible to expedite castling?



Black lacks space for pieces. Both the dark squared Bishop and the Knight would like to use e7 and the light squared Bishop and Knight would like to use f5. If Black isn't intending an early .. c5, there's no immediate need to get the Rook to c8.

As White I've found the problem to be what to do next after playing Nf3, Be2 and O-O.
  
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Re: Caro-Kann, Advance Variation, Short Variation
Reply #18 - 09/27/17 at 03:06:29
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Yes - Burmakin plays it with fast castling and f7-f6 if possible.
This is a typical engine position in my eyes. I'm interested in the opinion of stronger players.
  

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HgMan
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Re: Caro-Kann, Advance Variation, Short Variation
Reply #17 - 09/27/17 at 02:05:50
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Could somebody please explain to me the following:

1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.e5 Bf5 4.Nf3 e6 5.Be2 Ne7 6.0-0 Nc8

Getting the knight out of the way as quickly as possible to expedite castling? In practice the knight on c8 goes any number of directions and/or sits on c8 for quite a long time. Yet: Black seems to score reasonably well with it...
  

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Re: Caro-Kann, Advance Variation, Short Variation
Reply #16 - 02/09/14 at 23:46:40
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Short system seems like the most practical and sensible option against the Caro now.

Modern main-line?

At least White gets a decent strategical game of chess, there is theory but plenty of options for creativity also.
  
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Re: Caro-Kann, Advance Variation, Short Variation
Reply #15 - 02/09/14 at 09:15:59
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Seems to me Nigel is no Caro theoretician and was just winging it against weaker players...

I'm happy with the Black side of the Short variation. Haven't seen many club players with the positional sophistication that playing White in this system demands.
  
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Re: Caro-Kann, Advance Variation, Short Variation
Reply #14 - 02/08/14 at 12:02:45
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Nigel had to meet his own system in a couple of games from Gibraltar recently. In the first, which he drew, he didn't play .. c5 at all, allowing White to get in c5 for herself. He then broke the position up with .. f6 despite having played .. h6 earlier. This involved having to sacrifice a piece to get a pawn army. In the second, he played .. c5 but seemed to be blown away by one of the normal plans involving white playing c4.


  
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Re: Caro-Kann, Advance Variation, Short Variation
Reply #13 - 11/12/13 at 22:19:14
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The Advance seems to be getting very popular in correspondence chess...I'm playing in one tournament at the moment and all 4 players that opened 1.e4 opted for it. In my view the most dangerous line is the Short system but specifically where White plays Nbd2-b3, Bd2 and pushes his a pawn. The White set up is very flexible and Black has to be careful not to castle too early either side. If Black plays a5 that can be a target with the B and N already lined up.
  
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Re: Caro-Kann, Advance Variation, Short Variation
Reply #12 - 10/19/13 at 20:30:38
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Not sure how popular it is at club level yet. I've been going 4 Be3 for a bit now and it very often seems to produce thought quite early on from both sides then interesting positions.

Its an ideal opening for club play actually as its too flexible to really concretely book.

I can't remember seeing many in other peoples games either, but I don't see enormous numbers of caro's.
  
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Stigma
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Re: Caro-Kann, Advance Variation, Short Variation
Reply #11 - 10/19/13 at 19:57:36
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I played the Short system for a while after Kaufman recommended it in the first edition of his repertoire back in 2004. But then it got wildly popular and Black players started being ready for it (besides, I switched almost entirely to 1.d4). But the positions are interesting.
  

Improvement begins at the edge of your comfort zone. -Jonathan Rowson
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