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Normal Topic Not so favourable in the Vienna / KG Declined (Read 3307 times)
RdC
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Re: Not so favourable in the Vienna / KG Declined
Reply #3 - 07/26/13 at 14:56:49
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Now most of the books about the King’s Gambit or the Vienna I know give 5. Bb5, sometimes even with a "!" (e.g. McDonald, Estrin), because "White achieves a favourable position from the King’s Gambit Declined". (Tseitlin and Glazkov)

It's traditional wisdom that Bb5 is better than Bc4 if you get the chance to play it. If it's been passed down from one King's Gambit author to the next without a first principles review, it's up for challenge. 

I've found in practice that defending these type of positions where White gets an early f5 to be difficult, but then I've usually played .. Nf6  Having said that, a check with a computer engine didn't find any disadvantage for Black. So if a move order with an early .. d6 has other advantages, avoiding it because of Bb5 is unnecessary.
  
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Smyslov_Fan
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Re: Not so favourable in the Vienna / KG Declined
Reply #2 - 07/24/13 at 21:52:23
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Welcome, Lanark! 

Does anyone know what John Shaw, in his new book on the King's Gambit, has to say about this?
  
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tony37
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Re: Not so favourable in the Vienna / KG Declined
Reply #1 - 07/24/13 at 20:41:22
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I like 6.f5, it's dangerous for black to castle short there, and long castling doesn't seem so easy to arrange
  
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Lanark
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Not so favourable in the Vienna / KG Declined
07/24/13 at 18:12:22
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Hi,

I would like to start a discussion about a variation of the King’s Gambit Declined. I reach the following position with White via the Vienna Game:
1.e4 e5 2.Nc3 Nc6 3.f4 Bc5 4.Nf3
(Thomas Johansson in "The fascinating King’s Gambit" prefers 4.fxe5 but does not mention the quite promising gambit 4…d6)
4…d6
Now most of the books about the King’s Gambit or the Vienna I know give
5. Bb5,
sometimes even with a "!" (e.g. McDonald, Estrin), because "White achieves a favourable position from the King’s Gambit Declined". (Tseitlin and Glazkov) 

But after the simple 5…Nge7, advocated by Marin in "Beating the Open Games", I don’t see anything favourable for White.  Undecided

a) 6. Na4 is kind of a main line here, but after 6…Bg4 or 6…a6 I think Black is already equal.

b) 6.d4 is met by 6…exd4 7.Nxd4 0-0 and Black should be absolutely fine.

c) Accepting the pawn offer with 6.fxe5 is especially funny, because Marin gives 6…dxe5 7.Nxe5 Qd4 8.Nd3 Bb6 and "White has problems continuing his development". But Bangiev showed already a few years earlier that 9.b3 is not so bad for White: 9…0-0 10.Ba3 (probably stronger than 10.Bb2 Ne5) 10…Ne5 11.Qe2 with an interesting fight.
However, in this line 7…0-0 is much better than 7…Qd4. I think Black has very good compensation for the pawn and the White king is stuck in the middle for the next moves.

d) 6.d3 looks like the most natural move. After 6...Bg4 7.h3 Bxf3 8.Qxf3 0-0 9.Ne2 White is ok, but is this position really "favourable"? Maybe I'm asking for too much.  Wink 

e) I found only one game with 6.f5 (Shomoev  (2566) – Balashov (2426), 2011).
It looks a bit odd to me to play such a move before completing development, but maybe this is the way to go? The game went 6…a6 7.Bc4 b5 8.Bb3 Na5 9.d3 Nxb3 10.axb3 and White may have a little something, but Black had probably better moves than chasing the bishop(?).

So, my question is: Where is White’s "favourable position" after 5.Bb5 Nge7?
Is 6.f5 the best plan? 
« Last Edit: 07/24/13 at 19:38:58 by Lanark »  
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