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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) 1...e5 Endgame repertoire (Read 19696 times)
Confused_by_Theory
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Re: 1...e5 Endgame repertoire
Reply #26 - 06/08/15 at 22:56:53
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DrKibzwang wrote on 06/02/15 at 03:31:45:
How about the Petroff?


The Petroff does perhaps give some chances for dull technical positions if white chooses not to play ambitiously.

Personally though I've always seen the Petroff as an opening for those who want to fight with white in a fairly open middlegame not an opening for those wanting technical play and good endgames.

Have a nice day.
  
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Gut Gambit
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Re: 1...e5 Endgame repertoire
Reply #25 - 06/07/15 at 21:58:03
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DrKibzwang wrote on 06/02/15 at 03:31:45:
How about the Petroff?

Yes what about it?
  
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DrKibzwang
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Re: 1...e5 Endgame repertoire
Reply #24 - 06/02/15 at 03:31:45
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How about the Petroff?
  
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Re: 1...e5 Endgame repertoire
Reply #23 - 05/07/15 at 19:54:09
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Just be aware that if you use this move order ( 1.e4-d6 2.d4-Nf6 3.Nc3-e5!?) on permanent basis, the opponents might start using the move order : 1.e4-d6 2.Nc3!? ( point being: 2...Nf6 3.f4) , and suddenly S. Kasparovs book is of no use for you. I`m not saying this is all great for white, but I think its very playable...

  
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Re: 1...e5 Endgame repertoire
Reply #22 - 05/06/15 at 00:26:55
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Besides the ideas suggested so far (especially the Berlin ending), an interesting approach is the Philidor via the move order 1.e4 d6!? 2.d4 Nf6 3.Nc3 e5! 

Sergey Kasparov has an interesting book titled "A Cunning Chess Opening for Black" (http://www.amazon.com/Cunning-Chess-Opening-Black-Opponent/dp/9056915932/) that deeply explores the ending that follows 4.dxe5 dxe5 5.Qxd8+ Kxd8, which a lot of amateurs (at least those not afraid to exchange queens) will play very quickly, especially in blitz -- entering what the author calls "the Philidor swamp."  From my own experience playing this and similar lines, you will get the ending quite a bit -- though hardly in every game.  But I'd say it is your best chance of getting a quick ending via "the open games."  See sample pages here:
https://www.newinchess.com/Shop/Images/Pdfs/9008.pdf

This idea is even better after 1.d4 d6 2.c4 e5! 3.dxe5?! etc., when the pawn at c4 creates some problems for White -- weakening dark squares and presenting a potential target.  There are plenty of other books on the universal 1...d6 repertoire.

Edmar Mednis had an interesting book long ago titled "From the Opening into the Endgame" (http://www.amazon.com/From-Opening-Endgame-Edmar-Mednis/dp/1857441249) which explored your idea of getting interesting endings out of the opening -- but as White.  As others have pointed out in this thread, White has a much better chance of forcing an ending than Black.  But it would be interesting to contemplate an endgame repertoire as Black.  Probably the Slav and the Caro-Kann present the best opportunities.  Perhaps the Bogo-Indian and Rubinstein French (see Langrock's book) are another approach.  But I think 1...d6 followed by ...e5 is the simplest option and the one closest to your desired open games repertoire.
  
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Re: 1...e5 Endgame repertoire
Reply #21 - 08/01/13 at 05:11:54
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Edited:
Please refrain from personal attacks.
  
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Re: 1...e5 Endgame repertoire
Reply #20 - 07/31/13 at 20:21:26
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...

Now, the first part of your reply, that was interesting and I thank you very much. As for the rest...

Edited:
Edited to remove reference to a personal attack ~SF
« Last Edit: 08/01/13 at 05:13:01 by Smyslov_Fan »  
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Re: 1...e5 Endgame repertoire
Reply #19 - 07/31/13 at 13:47:08
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I've never been terribly sure about that - I've always liked defending against attacks and have beaten quite a few people who've panicked while driving attacks through.
(Some objectively sound, some not.).

I'm far from convinced that driving an attack home accurately is any easier than defending sensibly.

I guess stuff like the Breyer has to count as soaking pressure up, although in that case the full set of pieces and a mass of tension does remain for a very long time.
  
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Re: 1...e5 Endgame repertoire
Reply #18 - 07/31/13 at 13:25:04
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Quote:

You are right...right in saying your view is very subjective. I derive far more pleasure from squeezing an opponent to death, soaking up an attack and going on to win or otherwise outplaying a  player positionally, that in wining through attack.

There is of course a different between playing solidly and playing passively. And a good player understands that sharp play cannot be entirely avoided and will have to be willing to attack when it is favourable.

But, there are many valid approaches to playing chess. And  it is wrong to say that attacking play is fundamentally superior to other styles of play.


I don't want to wander too far from the original topic of the post (suggestions for a 1...e5 endgame repertoire), but I would like to reply to Antillian's comments on my earlier post.

No, I certainly do not claim that attacking play is superior to technical play; I don't know how such a claim could even be clearly defined and measured.

What I was suggesting was that below master level, attacking play is disproportionately rewarded. In other words, non-titled players can be induced to play poorly by placing them under attacking pressure. They lack the defensive skills of a higher level player.

Thus, if one adopts an endgame repertoire, one risks losing the opportunity of exploiting this practical strategy.
  
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Re: 1...e5 Endgame repertoire
Reply #17 - 07/30/13 at 23:33:12
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Berlin and Petroff have been mentioned.

Philidor setups are also possible, either with the standard buildup d6, c6, e5, Qc7, Nbd7, Ngf6, Be7, h6 (in some order) or with the more direct 1.e4 e5 2.d4 d6 allowing the queenswap line.

The question of this thread is a bit vague though, because most major variations after 1.e4 e5 are quite solid and resilient, as that is the nature of 1.e4 e5 openings for Black in general.
  

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Re: 1...e5 Endgame repertoire
Reply #16 - 07/30/13 at 23:18:38
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how about the modern Steinitz defence 3.Bb5 a6 4.Ba4 d6 ?
I have no experience with it, but it looks solid to me
  
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Re: 1...e5 Endgame repertoire
Reply #15 - 07/30/13 at 23:13:50
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I really dont get it. And you. And its probably just me..

But If you want a take a step back as a 1...e5 player then play 1...e6 instead.  Smiley Very practical.

And yes, I really have some ideas in the open games. And  that is because I played it "all my life". 

This is the reason I understand so little of what you are trying to hammer of out your stone..

No offence

Best

Ben


  

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Re: 1...e5 Endgame repertoire
Reply #14 - 07/30/13 at 22:40:15
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Benoniac wrote on 07/30/13 at 21:40:59:
But I cant help but  agree with Markovich that if you choose to play Open Games ( 1...e5) , then you should be ready for that first white mistake Cool


My guess is that you misunderstand me. I have never said that I would not like to exploit white's mistakes, nor did I say that I would not play according to the needs of the position: if a kingside attack is asked for, so be it!

You confuse, as Antilian rightfully expressed it, passive play and solid play. Yes, I could go
1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 f5!
1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Nf6 and Ulvestad!
1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 and right into the heart of the Muzio et alii!
And so on.

I use to play such lines, fighting for the initiative right from the third move. But, for a time, I would like to take a step back. Why not? Have you got some ideas in the Open Game complex?
  
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Re: 1...e5 Endgame repertoire
Reply #13 - 07/30/13 at 21:40:59
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And  it is wrong to say that attacking play is fundamentally superior to other styles of play.

In my opinion heavypieces has not said no such thing (superior) . He expressed his liking of attacking play vs the thechnical style. Must be allowed Smiley

You got some good points though.

But I cant help but  agree with Markovich that if you choose to play Open Games ( 1...e5) , then you should be ready for that first white mistake Cool

Ben
  

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Antillian
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Re: 1...e5 Endgame repertoire
Reply #12 - 07/30/13 at 21:16:22
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heavypieces wrote on 07/30/13 at 08:52:08:
It seems to me that there exists two serious drawbacks in this technical/defensive opening approach:

1. White might not play along. What if White is a lower rated player and, instead of throwing themselves upon your resilient opening, they just sit there, shuffle pieces, and think - 'I'll just play solidly and take the draw'?

2. A linked problem is that by playing defensively you're missing out on a very rewarding strategy - attacking play! Attacking play can cause the opponent to feel pressured and make mistakes, even if your attack is not completely sound. I just think that, below Master level at least, attacking play is more rewarding (in terms of results, and in terms of fun, although obviously that's subjective) than technical play.

[EDIT: Typo]


You are right...right in saying your view is very subjective. I derive far more pleasure from squeezing an opponent to death, soaking up an attack and going on to win or otherwise outplaying a  player positionally, that in wining through attack.

There is of course a different between playing solidly and playing passively. And a good player understands that sharp play cannot be entirely avoided and will have to be willing to attack when it is favourable.

But, there are many valid approaches to playing chess. And  it is wrong to say that attacking play is fundamentally superior to other styles of play.
  

"Breakthrough results come about by a series of good decisions, diligently executed and accumulated one on top of another." Jim Collins --- Good to Great
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