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Normal Topic KID 5 Be3 : Have Black better than 5..O-O ? (Read 6837 times)
vallescure
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Re: KID 5 Be3 : Have Black better than 5..O-O ?
Reply #8 - 08/13/13 at 10:50:27
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When I play KID , I get used to have "bad" evals during the first moves ; it's a bit artificial , as white supremacy in center is overestimated , but  I shall not complain if my struggle for center has more success than usual
If I launch my attack from a less cramped position , it does not mean it will be weaker
  
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tony37
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Re: KID 5 Be3 : Have Black better than 5..O-O ?
Reply #7 - 08/12/13 at 18:45:57
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vallescure wrote on 08/11/13 at 16:32:22:
It's indeed my intention , as well that of Houdini , with an eval steady at 0,04 at depth 34 (running my engine 8 hours )
I did not test further yet , but equalizing as soon as move 6 is a guarantee of soundness

but why do you want to equalise when playing the King's Indian? your main aim should be to seek counterchances (otherwise it's a strange idea to play a KID), not that this is always so easy...
  
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vallescure
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Re: KID 5 Be3 : Have Black better than 5..O-O ?
Reply #6 - 08/12/13 at 15:09:05
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@Fllg in your variation 7...Qa5 is not so good , because 8 f3!
My opponent has chosen 6 d5 after which 6..Ng4 is mandatory, and it's a drawing line : 7 Bd2 Bd4 8 Nh3
  
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vallescure
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Re: KID 5 Be3 : Have Black better than 5..O-O ?
Reply #5 - 08/11/13 at 16:32:22
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It's indeed my intention , as well that of Houdini , with an eval steady at 0,04 at depth 34 (running my engine 8 hours )
I did not test further yet , but equalizing as soon as move 6 is a guarantee of soundness
  
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Fllg
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Re: KID 5 Be3 : Have Black better than 5..O-O ?
Reply #4 - 08/11/13 at 14:05:06
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Well, if 5.Be3 Ng4 6.Bc1 then of course you can just go back too with 6... Nf6 and ask White what he wants.  Wink

As for 5.Be3 Ng4 6.Bc1 c5 7.dxc5 there is also the possibility of 7... Qa5 which I assume is also your intention after 5.Be3 c5 6.dxc5.
  
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vallescure
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Re: KID 5 Be3 : Have Black better than 5..O-O ?
Reply #3 - 08/11/13 at 12:28:06
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I understand very well that , OTB , a player who has not specally worked this line chooses to transpose to well-known variations , but I am a CC player , and I look for ultimate truth
As for me , I analyzed 5..c5 at once  , and it seems that Black equalizes at once
But I could not find in my CC DB any game to confirm it
It is similar to the Pirc between Spasski and Fisher in their world match
I am not fully convinced by 5..Ng4 6 Bc1 c5 7 dxc5 dxc5 8 Qxd8+ Kxd8 : in KID , I don't like exchange Queens so early , nor lose right to castle
Matter of taste : I dislike the "Berlin Wall"
  
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Re: KID 5 Be3 : Have Black better than 5..O-O ?
Reply #2 - 08/11/13 at 11:45:20
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TN wrote on 08/11/13 at 10:26:30:
I think the reason for 5.Be3's lack of popularity is 5...Ng4, but when I looked at this a couple of years ago it wasn't as easy for Black to equalise after 6.Bg5 h6 7.Bc1 e5 8.d5 as theory suggests.


In "Attacking Chess: The King´s Indian Vol. 2" David Vigorito looks at this from the move order 5.Bg5 h6 6.Be3 Ng4 7.Bc1. According to him 7... e5 8.d5 f5 is okay for Black but his main suggestion is 7... c5! leading to unclear play.

After 5.Be3 Ng4 6.Bg5 h6 White can also go 7.Bh4 but the bishop is a bit offside here and so 7... c5 looks logical here as well.

So if for some reason you don´t want to allow a transposition to other lines with 5... 0-0 then 5... Ng4 might be your best bet.
  
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TN
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Re: KID 5 Be3 : Have Black better than 5..O-O ?
Reply #1 - 08/11/13 at 10:26:30
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I think the reason for 5.Be3's lack of popularity is 5...Ng4, but when I looked at this a couple of years ago it wasn't as easy for Black to equalise after 6.Bg5 h6 7.Bc1 e5 8.d5 as theory suggests. That said, White seems to be able to fight for an advantage with almost anything against the King's Indian these days, at least until Kotronias's second KID book is published.  Wink
  

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vallescure
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KID 5 Be3 : Have Black better than 5..O-O ?
08/11/13 at 10:14:39
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The line 1 d4 Nf6 2 c4 g6 3 Nc3 Bg7 4 e4 d6 5 Be3 is absent of all opening books
Yet ,the move 5 Be3 has been played between GMs , and the replay has always been 5..O-O with a Saemisch to follow
I remain convinced that there is better for Black
Any ideas ?
PS I am International Master ICCF
  
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