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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) C42-C43 The Petrov for the rest of your chess life (Read 54314 times)
Pale Horse, Pale Rider
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Re: C42-C43 The Petrov for the rest of your chess life
Reply #52 - 04/20/14 at 21:52:44
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ErictheRed wrote on 04/20/14 at 18:49:35:
That looks like tons of fun, though for me it's a little hard to believe that two 1800 players would follow 23 moves of theory like that.  It's always nice to win games "at home," so to speak.


Oh, sorry, I wasn't very clear here. It was a correspondence game. I mentioned that some 20 posts ago but it wasn't clear from this post. No chance I would remember 23 moves of theory in a relatively unimportant variation. I'm not sure why my opponent chose this variation. I thought he had something in specific in mind/preparation but appearently that wasn't the case. Just wanted to give give an example of the depth of the book's analysis and maybe revive this thread. The publication didn't start a big discussion really ...
  
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Re: C42-C43 The Petrov for the rest of your chess life
Reply #51 - 04/20/14 at 18:49:35
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That looks like tons of fun, though for me it's a little hard to believe that two 1800 players would follow 23 moves of theory like that.  It's always nice to win games "at home," so to speak.
  
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Re: C42-C43 The Petrov for the rest of your chess life
Reply #50 - 04/20/14 at 18:38:09
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Since this thread has not been very active lately, I would like to share as an example a game which i played using Cohen's book. It is however not in the Petrov, but the Spanish 4 Knights which can be reached in Cohens book via transposition. I'm not very familiar with the Spanish 4 Knights, however, I felt that the coverage in the book was of a great depth and a good guidance. I commented the game very lightly, but I made sure to point out at which point I left his bookknowledge.

  
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Re: C42-C43 The Petrov for the rest of your chess life
Reply #49 - 01/14/14 at 14:04:05
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Off-Topic replies have been moved to this Topic.
  
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Re: C42-C43 The Petrov for the rest of your chess life
Reply #48 - 01/13/14 at 19:43:28
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gewgaw wrote on 01/04/14 at 18:19:33:
Smyslov_Fan wrote on 01/03/14 at 17:53:46:
There do seem to be quite a few recent books on lines that I had considered my own special secret.

The Petrov just doesn't have much ink devoted to it. I still rather doubt many people will rush to play the Petrov, but there is a definite trend of strong analysts writing books on openings that had previously been all but ignored.


I think about taking up the petroff as my surprise weapon, right now I play sicilian paulsen/taimanov:

- after 1.e4 e5 - how often do you get the chance to play the petroff?  (2.f4, 2.Bc4 a.s.o)?
- which lines prefer the 2000-2400 elo players? 
- maybe this sounds a bit weird, but how do you usually win in the petroff or do you use it as a draw weapon against stronger players only?


I would love to hear the answer to those questions as well. No real interest in the topic everyone  Embarrassed

Mike Thomas wrote on 01/02/14 at 11:00:26:
Dennis Monokroussos just posted a review of the book on his blog.

http://www.thechessmind.net/blog/2014/1/1/a-review-of-cohens-_a-vigorous-chess-o...


Thank for sharing this. I have a question regarding this part of the review:

" [...] Cohen recommends the declined line 1.e4 e5 2.f4 Bc5 3.Nf3 d6 4.Nc3 Nf6 5.Bc4 Nc6 6.d3 Bg4 7.Na4 0-0 8.Nxc5 dxc5 9.0-0 Qd6. After 10.Qd2 Bxf3 11.gxf3 exf4 12.Qxf4 Marin gave 12…Ne5, but Cohen suggests the novelty 12…Nd4 instead."

Since I never played the king's gambit, I have no clue what is going on here really. I wonder if black has no impovements up to this point in the KGD. Why is black surrendering the center with 11...exf4. Is 12. f5 such a terrible threat here? The computer seems to love 11...Nd7 here, with the possiblity of retaken with the d7 knight in case of 12. fxe5 and the idea 12. f5 Nb6. Black's kingside seems to become a little shaky in the later case but it doesn't look so scary. But maybe I'm too much computer influenced (sloughterized so to say) here and this just rubbish. Any thoughts?
  
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Re: C42-C43 The Petrov for the rest of your chess life
Reply #47 - 01/04/14 at 21:47:10
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Bibs wrote on 01/02/14 at 08:23:02:
BUMP
Thoughts anyone thus far? Has been out a while now.
Happy with lines chosen? Depth and accuracy (in your humble view) of analysis?

And, @Mods, perhaps this and earlier posts could be split to a new thread: 'Vigorous Petrov book by Cohen' or something.

Cheers,
B


I support the new thread idea!
I got the book since around christmas. I started three correspondence games without any prior knowledge. In one my opponent resigned during the opening phase (no clue why) so I can't say much about it. The second was the Glek four knight's (see earlier in the thread). Which is obviously not very cutting edge. I got comfortable equality.
The last one is ongoing in the line 1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nf6 3. d4 Nxe4 4. dxe4 which is not very critical either. The game got me to move 11 when my opponent played a move that has been played otb once and was reached 9 times in total. I would consider this a reasonable depth. So I would say that my impression is better than what the review suggests.
I have no idea how opening preparation of players >2200 is but I am pretty sure that this book is more than sufficient for anyone below that level. I have seen players 2000+ starting to think on move 4 in a main line ...
I have to agree with the author of the review that the modern italian game is not very detailed though. I haven't gone through it in detail, but having played this system with white myself I can hardly believe that it can be disproved on two pages or so. On the other hand the recommendations of Cohen at least don't let you run into very sharp variations without sufficient explanations.

These are just a few (very subjective) impressions I had.

Thanks to everyone pointing out weak spots in the analysis. I will have a look at them Smiley
  
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Re: C42-C43 The Petrov for the rest of your chess life
Reply #46 - 01/04/14 at 18:19:33
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Smyslov_Fan wrote on 01/03/14 at 17:53:46:
There do seem to be quite a few recent books on lines that I had considered my own special secret.

The Petrov just doesn't have much ink devoted to it. I still rather doubt many people will rush to play the Petrov, but there is a definite trend of strong analysts writing books on openings that had previously been all but ignored.


I think about taking up the petroff as my surprise weapon, right now I play sicilian paulsen/taimanov:

- after 1.e4 e5 - how often do you get the chance to play the petroff?  (2.f4, 2.Bc4 a.s.o)?
- which lines prefer the 2000-2400 elo players? 
- maybe this sounds a bit weird, but how do you usually win in the petroff or do you use it as a draw weapon against stronger players only?
  

The older, the better - over 2200 and still rising.
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Re: C42-C43 The Petrov for the rest of your chess life
Reply #45 - 01/03/14 at 22:26:41
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How does Cohen's new book compare to Sakaev's?

Thanks.
  
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Re: C42-C43 The Petrov for the rest of your chess life
Reply #44 - 01/03/14 at 17:53:46
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There do seem to be quite a few recent books on lines that I had considered my own special secret.

The Petrov just doesn't have much ink devoted to it. I still rather doubt many people will rush to play the Petrov, but there is a definite trend of strong analysts writing books on openings that had previously been all but ignored.
  
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Re: C42-C43 The Petrov for the rest of your chess life
Reply #43 - 01/03/14 at 15:55:58
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Smyslov_Fan wrote on 01/03/14 at 08:25:22:
I may have to go find new lines to play. Angry


You say this every time a new book comes out Tongue.
  
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Re: C42-C43 The Petrov for the rest of your chess life
Reply #42 - 01/03/14 at 08:25:22
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I am ambivalent about this new interest in the Petrov. I completely agree that it is undervalued as a winning effort below the grandmaster level, as Dennis Monokroussos states. But I don't want everyone to know this! Chess is hard enough without players coming along and shining their analytic lights on lines that are traditionally ignored.

I may have to go find new lines to play. Angry
  
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Re: C42-C43 The Petrov for the rest of your chess life
Reply #41 - 01/02/14 at 11:42:31
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Mike Thomas wrote on 01/02/14 at 11:00:26:
Dennis Monokroussos just posted a review of the book on his blog.

http://www.thechessmind.net/blog/2014/1/1/a-review-of-cohens-_a-vigorous-chess-o...

just saying that in the mentioned 15...Bd6 line 16.c4 Qe4 17.Be3 Rad8 18.c5 Be7 19.Qb3 looks interesting for white too
  
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Re: C42-C43 The Petrov for the rest of your chess life
Reply #40 - 01/02/14 at 11:00:26
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Dennis Monokroussos just posted a review of the book on his blog.

http://www.thechessmind.net/blog/2014/1/1/a-review-of-cohens-_a-vigorous-chess-o...
  
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Re: C42-C43 The Petrov for the rest of your chess life
Reply #39 - 01/02/14 at 08:23:02
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BUMP
Thoughts anyone thus far? Has been out a while now.
Happy with lines chosen? Depth and accuracy (in your humble view) of analysis?

And, @Mods, perhaps this and earlier posts could be split to a new thread: 'Vigorous Petrov book by Cohen' or something.

Cheers,
B
  
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Re: C42-C43 The Petrov for the rest of your chess life
Reply #38 - 12/14/13 at 08:38:33
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Finally received my copy yesterday. Of course this implies that I haven't really gone into any details yet, but the breadth of the coverage and the way it is present looks appealing.
I like that the author doesn't shy away to contradict other chess writers and adds a fair deal of personal experience and opinions. If the analysis keeps up with what the rest of the book promises this is a great effort. Has by chance someone who knows his stuff about the Petrov checked the analysis of a very critical line?
  
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Re: C42-C43 The Petrov for the rest of your chess life
Reply #37 - 11/20/13 at 22:10:53
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I've had the impression (e.g. from an article in NIC) that 4...Nxe4 is a serious try and that perhaps White has nothing better than to transpose to a ...d5 main line by giving back the piece.  (Incidentally I think the first time I saw anything about 4...Nxe4 was in Informator in the '90s.)
  
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Re: C42-C43 The Petrov for the rest of your chess life
Reply #36 - 11/20/13 at 21:44:38
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He also gives a few lines with the reversed Haloween for a laugh, BTW. The author is a funny guy. Also 1 e4 e5 2 f4 c6?! Smiley (along with its refutation)
  
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Re: C42-C43 The Petrov for the rest of your chess life
Reply #35 - 11/20/13 at 20:19:56
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kylemeister wrote on 11/20/13 at 19:33:00:
I'd have to say it would be surprising if such an old and natural main line were not still "holding up pretty well" ...



Well, I obviously dont know everything you do, Kylemeister.

I was just trying to help a fellow member get going  Smiley

Ben
  

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Re: C42-C43 The Petrov for the rest of your chess life
Reply #34 - 11/20/13 at 19:33:00
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I'd have to say it would be surprising if such an old and natural main line were not still "holding up pretty well" ...
  
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Re: C42-C43 The Petrov for the rest of your chess life
Reply #33 - 11/20/13 at 19:07:11
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Not to worry!
He gives: 4.g3-Bc5 5.Bg2-d6 6.d3-a6!, and so on. I checked a little bit, and it seems to hold up pretty well.

By the way; all the markings I have given in my posts are  Choen`s.

Good luck with you corr game Smiley It seems you have equalized already...

Ben
  

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Re: C42-C43 The Petrov for the rest of your chess life
Reply #32 - 11/20/13 at 17:13:11
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Benoniac wrote on 11/07/13 at 22:25:03:
[quote author=717E6D6D706B1F0 link=1378671786/19#19 date=1383773665]
Vienna:
3.f4-d5 4.fxe5-Nxe4 5.Sf3-Bc5!? 6.d4-Bb4 7.Bd2-Bg4!

Glek: 2.Nc3-Nf6 3.g3-c6!?

Spanish four knights:
Rubinsteins 4...Nd4

Scotsh four knigths:
4.d4-Bb4!?


With my usual impatience I started playing two correspondence games without even receiving the book yet. From your description I figured that the author proposes

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nf6 3. Nc3 Nc6

which is the four knights. Now my opponent played 4. g3 which should be a four knight's Glek or so. In your summary you only mentioned 3. g3. Now i wonder if the move order from my game is covered (obviously i cannot transpose). I don't want help for my game but i would like to know if this is covered so I'd wait for the book or not (then i would go into some research now). Thanks for your kind help!
  
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Re: C42-C43 The Petrov for the rest of your chess life
Reply #31 - 11/10/13 at 19:01:39
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I like FM Cohen's view on Petroff in his new book: a combination of some sort of Sicilian and the Petroff is the most lethal and dangerous combination. 

Gelfand is a role model for this repertoire.

Having said that I think the Berlin Ruy is a good alternative as well - less forcing than Petroff so probably easier to maintain long term which is why Kramnik seems to have preferred Berlin lately. There are a number of players who combine both Najdorf and Berlin e.g. Topalov.

Pingudon wrote on 09/08/13 at 20:23:06:
I have played a lot of French and Caro, but I got tired of lack of space. I watt to change to 1... e5 but do not want to study so much theory. Is the Petrov as good as the Caro or French? Kramnik, Anand, Karpov and a lot more had played the Petrov but they don't anymore. Is ok the Petrov to be played against strong players and to be played for the rest of your chess life?

  
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Re: C42-C43 The Petrov for the rest of your chess life
Reply #30 - 11/09/13 at 10:51:42
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Fllg wrote on 11/09/13 at 08:59:02:
It´s available, see e.g. schachversand.de.


Oh, my bad Embarrassed. I searched there yesterday but appearently schachversand hasn't added the other to the authors data base. Searching directly for the book title works. Thanks. Don't feel like waiting until december Sad
  
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Re: C42-C43 The Petrov for the rest of your chess life
Reply #29 - 11/09/13 at 08:59:02
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It´s available, see e.g. schachversand.de.
  
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Re: C42-C43 The Petrov for the rest of your chess life
Reply #28 - 11/09/13 at 00:17:22
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Fllg wrote on 11/08/13 at 21:18:03:
It feels somewhat odd to me because Black ends up playing an main line with a lot of nuances of an opening which is normally reached after 1 e4 e5 2 Nf3 Nc6. And this is a book about the Petrov, isn´t it? Wink


I kind of agree here. It seems to play directly into what white wants to achieve playing the Bishop's game - avoiding the Petrov that ist.
I'm confused, is the book already available? Amazon.de and .com indicate that it's due in december?!
  
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Re: C42-C43 The Petrov for the rest of your chess life
Reply #27 - 11/08/13 at 21:18:03
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It feels somewhat odd to me because Black ends up playing an main line with a lot of nuances of an opening which is normally reached after 1 e4 e5 2 Nf3 Nc6. And this is a book about the Petrov, isn´t it? Wink

After 1 e4 e5 2 Bc4 Nf6 3 d3 both 3...c6 intending d5 and 3...Bc5 postponing the development of the queen´s knight are decent independent options. The latter is especially interesting if White continues with f2-f4, since then Black has the good idea to strike back in the centre with ...c6 & ...d5.

That´s also a more interesting choice against the Vienna after 1 e4 e5 2 Nc3 Nf6 3 Bc4 Bc5 instead of 3...Nxe4, when White has the dull option 4 Qh5 Nd6 5 Qxh5+ Qe7 6 Qxe7+. Not that Black has a reason to complain here.
  
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Re: C42-C43 The Petrov for the rest of your chess life
Reply #26 - 11/08/13 at 18:38:28
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Hmm. I dont get why this is slightly odd combined with the Petroff. But then again, I know nothing about this opening. To  to me it seems that after: 1.e4-e5 2.Bc4-Nf6 3.d3 black has nothing better than : 3....Nc6 and after 4.Nf3 here we are; 4...Be7 or 4...Bc5. The latter seems the most active.

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Re: C42-C43 The Petrov for the rest of your chess life
Reply #25 - 11/08/13 at 17:01:37
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Benoniac wrote on 11/08/13 at 10:30:41:
Cohen favour the line: 4...Bc5! with a standard set-up involving: h6, a6, Ba7 and Nh5. 
Maybe not so deep analysis for a ML, but you will get the gist of it  Smiley 

Ben


While theoretically perfectly sensible this is slightly odd for a repertoire based around the Petrov and certainly a lot of those playing 2.Bc4 will be happy with this. I certainly will Smiley

I´m also not in favour with some of his other choices since White can force Black to play very dull or very sharp lines sometimes.

Of course that may be the nature of the Petrov as well.

But I´m still interested in the book as long as the coverage of the main subject is decent.


  
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Re: C42-C43 The Petrov for the rest of your chess life
Reply #24 - 11/08/13 at 10:30:41
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Cohen favour the line: 4...Bc5! with a standard set-up involving: h6, a6, Ba7 and Nh5. 
Maybe not so deep analysis for a ML, but you will get the gist of it  Smiley 

Ben
  

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Re: C42-C43 The Petrov for the rest of your chess life
Reply #23 - 11/07/13 at 23:00:23
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Benoniac wrote on 11/07/13 at 22:25:03:
King`s Gambit:
declined with 2...Bc5

Vienna:
3.f4-d5 4.fxe5-Nxe4 5.Sf3-Bc5!? 6.d4-Bb4 7.Bd2-Bg4!

Glek: 2.Nc3-Nf6 3.g3-c6!?

Spanish four knights:
Rubinsteins 4...Nd4

Scotsh four knigths:
4.d4-Bb4!?

And :

2.Nc3-Nf6 3.Bc4-Nxe4!

2.Bc4-Nf6 3.d3-Nc6 4.Nc3-Na5

Overall a lot of sharp stuff it seems. Hope this helps a bit.

Ben


Thank you very much for the summary. I just checked these lines in a database and they all seems reasonable. What makes me wonder is what happens after:

1. e4 e5
2. Bc4 Nf6
3. d3 Nc6
and now not 4. Nc3 but 4. Nf3

* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
*

Checking the database black has played 4...Bc5 or 4...Be7 here in the vast majority of games. The first brings us back to Giuoco Pianissimo, the latter to the two knight's defence. Is 4. Nf3 adressed in the book. I would guess so because it brings us back to what is a major line in theory, isn't it?!
  
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Re: C42-C43 The Petrov for the rest of your chess life
Reply #22 - 11/07/13 at 22:25:03
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Pale Horse, Pale Rider wrote on 11/06/13 at 21:34:25:
SteelyDanIII wrote on 11/06/13 at 19:55:32:
I just noticed a new repertoire book on the Petrov. Looks interesting. Anyone bought it yet?


I have never had the slightest interest in the Petrov but this looks very tempting  Cheesy. If anyone has an overview over the contents (especially the systems against the Vienna and King's Gambit) it would be much appreciated.

Edit: The book has been already adressed on this forum (http://www.chesspub.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1366826250/14#14 ) but no further information was given.



King`s Gambit:
declined with 2...Bc5

Vienna:
3.f4-d5 4.fxe5-Nxe4 5.Sf3-Bc5!? 6.d4-Bb4 7.Bd2-Bg4!

Glek: 2.Nc3-Nf6 3.g3-c6!?

Spanish four knights:
Rubinsteins 4...Nd4

Scotsh four knigths:
4.d4-Bb4!?

And :

2.Nc3-Nf6 3.Bc4-Nxe4!

2.Bc4-Nf6 3.d3-Nc6 4.Nc3-Na5

Overall a lot of sharp stuff it seems. Hope this helps a bit.

Ben
  

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Re: C42-C43 The Petrov for the rest of your chess life
Reply #21 - 11/07/13 at 13:08:40
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I ordered it and will probably get it tomorrow, I will come back with some comments.

I think I'll just combine 2 .. Nf6 with 2 .. Nc6, that way all the sidelines are the same. Anyway most people at my level reply 3 Nc3 so Nf6 is more accurate Smiley I'd rather play against the 4 knights than the Italian game, which they usually play against Nc6...
  
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Re: C42-C43 The Petrov for the rest of your chess life
Reply #20 - 11/06/13 at 23:44:57
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The author makes a useful point in the intro. Combining a sharpish sicilian with a solid 1...e5 is a good long-term approach.  Wish I had done that when I was young and on the up.
Yes, agree with last post, interested to see more details of the responses to KG, Vienna etc.
  
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Re: C42-C43 The Petrov for the rest of your chess life
Reply #19 - 11/06/13 at 21:34:25
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SteelyDanIII wrote on 11/06/13 at 19:55:32:
I just noticed a new repertoire book on the Petrov. Looks interesting. Anyone bought it yet?


I have never had the slightest interest in the Petrov but this looks very tempting  Cheesy. If anyone has an overview over the contents (especially the systems against the Vienna and King's Gambit) it would be much appreciated.

Edit: The book has been already adressed on this forum (http://www.chesspub.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1366826250/14#14 ) but no further information was given.
« Last Edit: 11/07/13 at 00:34:15 by Pale Horse, Pale Rider »  
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Re: C42-C43 The Petrov for the rest of your chess life
Reply #18 - 11/06/13 at 19:55:32
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I just noticed a new repertoire book on the Petrov. Looks interesting. Anyone bought it yet?

http://www.newinchess.com/Shop/ProductDetails.aspx?ProductID=989&utm_source=New+...
  
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Re: C42-C43 The Petrov for the rest of your chess life
Reply #17 - 11/05/13 at 11:31:58
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Pingudon wrote on 09/16/13 at 00:51:38:
I will play it in my next tournament


And how, good sir, did you do?
  
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Re: C42-C43 The Petrov for the rest of your chess life
Reply #16 - 09/16/13 at 00:51:38
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I will play it in my next tournament
  
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Re: C42-C43 The Petrov for the rest of your chess life
Reply #15 - 09/14/13 at 19:08:04
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gwnn wrote on 09/14/13 at 11:48:36:
But yes, the psychological effect is true, I see it all the time that teammates or opponents say "oh no, the Russian is so boring!" but in most of my games or games that I see played by other U2000 players, there are much more tactics than in most Italian or Spanish games I see...


Indeed, and that is easy to explain: the Petroff leads to very open positions with active piece placement in almost all of its subvariations. In fact, I believe this factor makes the Petroff an opening that is relatively easy to learn: there is practically no specialized strategy to absorb (this can be very time-consuming indeed).
  
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Re: C42-C43 The Petrov for the rest of your chess life
Reply #14 - 09/14/13 at 17:05:01
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It is certainly very good at producing short/medium range tactics so plenty of scope for beating people if you're better at those than them.
  
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Re: C42-C43 The Petrov for the rest of your chess life
Reply #13 - 09/14/13 at 11:48:36
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Bogojump wrote on 09/14/13 at 00:30:34:
Not only that. Many "weak" players avoid the main line petroff and 50-60 % plays Roman and Alburts recommendation. 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nf6 3.Nxe5 d6 4.Nf3 Nxe4 5. Nc3!? Nxc3. Thats a line black must be a specialist in if he wants to grind "weak" players down.

Really? Black has excellent counter-chances in an opposite-wings pawn storm. He even has an extra central pawn. I would think "weak" players will be prone to losing their slightly easier development with inaccuracies, and then Black retains their healthier structure and attacking chances on the queenside. There are some endgame lines but is it really harder to grind weak players down in this line than in the Four Knights or 5. Qe2 or the main line 5. d4 d5?

But yes, the psychological effect is true, I see it all the time that teammates or opponents say "oh no, the Russian is so boring!" but in most of my games or games that I see played by other U2000 players, there are much more tactics than in most Italian or Spanish games I see...
  
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Re: C42-C43 The Petrov for the rest of your chess life
Reply #12 - 09/14/13 at 00:30:34
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TopNotch wrote on 09/09/13 at 03:42:10:
Good against strong players bad against weak ones. Wink


I think differently (but agree it sounds funny) : Good against strong players and good against weak players. "Weaker" players or let say players under 2000 Elo players are probably not too prepared for the "boring" Petroff. First of all they face it very seldom and concentrate more on how to face other openings (french,caro,sicilian,pirc,Alekhine and more). You can notice it even in blitz. If you play 1...c5 or the french against 1.e4 your oponent makes his moves immediately. But after 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nf6 you get those extra two or three seconds "what do I do now?" from white.

Not only that. Many "weak" players avoid the main line petroff and 50-60 % plays Roman and Alburts recommendation. 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nf6 3.Nxe5 d6 4.Nf3 Nxe4 5. Nc3!? Nxc3. Thats a line black must be a specialist in if he wants to grind "weak" players down.

Many also transposes in to four or three knights.
What i like with petroff is that it seems to have  a depressing impact on white.

Many hate to face it.
  

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Re: C42-C43 The Petrov for the rest of your chess life
Reply #11 - 09/10/13 at 17:31:58
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i played petroff many years up to my present level (class a in usa appox 1900 fide)

one thing i experience is when people know you play it they do find a lot of ways to avoid it so one need do some open games work v. four knights and scotch (1. e4 e5 2. d4 used a transposition for them to get there) and ponziani and what not

of course the nice thing is you get a lot of people punting the kings gambit and its nice to know black is playing for a win right out of the opening just by playing normal opening moves Smiley

edited to add: at my level i dont think it is that much less study than a lopex rep because you not gonna see too many lopes main lines anyway and the bulk of lopez study has to be prepared for all these sidelines anyway cause that we we gonna see 80% of time
  
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Re: C42-C43 The Petrov for the rest of your chess life
Reply #10 - 09/10/13 at 12:14:35
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Yes, Petroff does suffer a bit from a dull rep. But a good choice at club level I agree. Yes, once you have the Nf7 sac  sorted which is sound-ish, and tricky.

Wasn't there supposed to be an Everyman book on this? By Gupta and Har-Zvi?
I had assumed the Indian GM, but instead an organiser in the US btw, but Har-Zvi a GM of course.
An Everyman editor here somewhere amongst forumites I think. Still happening, people in the know?
  
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Re: C42-C43 The Petrov for the rest of your chess life
Reply #9 - 09/10/13 at 09:03:21
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I'm working through Yusupov's books, and I'll soon reach the chapter on the Petroff in Build Up 2. I want to start using it as an alternative to my Sicilian.

I figure that going through everything in that chapter carefully should be a good base to start playing it in serious games (at the 2000-2200 level), has anyone here done that?
  
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Re: C42-C43 The Petrov for the rest of your chess life
Reply #8 - 09/09/13 at 17:37:45
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Agreed, Markovich. Below the ~2300 I've seen it played for a win in weekend Swiss tournaments quite a bit. Considering its success rate at that level, I too am surprised it's not more popular.

I guess the fear of draw death really does scare people away from it. In the 2000-2300 range, it has about a 38% draw rate, with white winning ~37% and Black winning ~25%. Considering that almost half of the draws were short draws (under 25 moves), it makes the opening even more appealing for someone who wants a fight!
  
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Re: C42-C43 The Petrov for the rest of your chess life
Reply #7 - 09/09/13 at 17:14:54
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The Petroff is very good, though perhaps a little less enterprising than 2...Nc6.  It's sound and it avoids both the Spanish and its cousin, the Italian.  It also avoids the dreaded (by some) Scotch. I'm surprised that it's so unpopular in amateur chess.  It is noteworthy that the enterprising Marshall played this defense thoughout his career.
  

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Re: C42-C43 The Petrov for the rest of your chess life
Reply #6 - 09/09/13 at 10:49:17
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I think it's somewhat limiting to play just one opening for the rest of your life, but the Petroff definitely isn't an opening that will be refuted. At the 2000 level I think there's plenty of scope to outplay your opponent, especially considering the unpopularity of this opening below master level (meaning you will have more practical experience in the middlegame positions). You can also gamble with 3.Nxe5 Nxe4 if you want to pose early problems for an unprepared opponent and aren't worried about objective soundness.

  

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Re: C42-C43 The Petrov for the rest of your chess life
Reply #5 - 09/09/13 at 09:43:14
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Thank you very much friends! I am going to try it.
  
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Re: C42-C43 The Petrov for the rest of your chess life
Reply #4 - 09/09/13 at 08:28:36
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Pingudon wrote on 09/08/13 at 20:23:06:
I have played a lot of French and Caro, but I got tired of lack of space. I watt to change to 1... e5 but do not want to study so much theory. Is the Petrov as good as the Caro or French? Kramnik, Anand, Karpov and a lot more had played the Petrov but they don't anymore. Is ok the Petrov to be played against strong players and to be played for the rest of your chess life?

Hi,
the Petrov is as good as the French or Caro! Play it for the rest of your chesslife. For sure there are many symmetrical positions so you have just to be very patient to win such games..... Wink
  
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Re: C42-C43 The Petrov for the rest of your chess life
Reply #3 - 09/09/13 at 08:21:06
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I'd have thought that it'd get incredibly boring to play the Petroff over and over again. The Caro at least has a lot of variety in the pawn structures you get.
  
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Re: C42-C43 The Petrov for the rest of your chess life
Reply #2 - 09/09/13 at 04:36:33
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Topnotch, that's my feeling of the Caro-Kann! Well, against players rated about 100 pts lower than me, I don't like to play the Caro because it is so difficult to get complex winning positions against a competent opponent intent on drawing as white.

I find the French and the Sicilian both give more practical winning chances when White is intent on drawing.

If White is rated more than ~100 points lower than me, I don't think it matters which opening within my repertoire I choose. I will be able to create winning chances even as Black.
  
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Re: C42-C43 The Petrov for the rest of your chess life
Reply #1 - 09/09/13 at 03:42:10
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Good against strong players bad against weak ones. Wink
  

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C42-C43 The Petrov for the rest of your chess life
09/08/13 at 20:23:06
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I have played a lot of French and Caro, but I got tired of lack of space. I watt to change to 1... e5 but do not want to study so much theory. Is the Petrov as good as the Caro or French? Kramnik, Anand, Karpov and a lot more had played the Petrov but they don't anymore. Is ok the Petrov to be played against strong players and to be played for the rest of your chess life?
  
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