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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Damian Lemos Fianchetto System (Read 21612 times)
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Re: Damian Lemos Fianchetto System
Reply #28 - 11/01/17 at 18:55:18
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Not directed ad personam!

There is a difference between 24xx, 25xx, 26xx.
  

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Dum spiro spero. Smiley
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TD
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Re: Damian Lemos Fianchetto System
Reply #27 - 11/01/17 at 17:11:33
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ReneDescartes wrote on 11/01/17 at 14:36:01:
Yes. Lemos actually sanctions 2.Nf3--not even 3.Nf3. The direct quote is after 2.Nf3: "2.c4 is our direct move order, but there is no harm in throwing in Nf3 first, especially if White prefers to avoid the Budapest Gambit..."

Very strange indeed!
  
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Re: Damian Lemos Fianchetto System
Reply #26 - 11/01/17 at 14:36:01
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Yes. Lemos actually sanctions 2.Nf3--not even 3.Nf3. The direct quote is after 2.Nf3: "2.c4 is our direct move order, but there is no harm in throwing in Nf3 first, especially if White prefers to avoid the Budapest Gambit..."
  
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Re: Damian Lemos Fianchetto System
Reply #25 - 11/01/17 at 04:42:50
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ReneDescartes wrote on 11/01/17 at 00:43:59:
In Andersson-Roos.

Not in my book! Do you have an electronic version?
  
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Re: Damian Lemos Fianchetto System
Reply #24 - 11/01/17 at 00:43:59
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In Andersson-Roos.
  
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TD
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Re: Damian Lemos Fianchetto System
Reply #23 - 10/31/17 at 17:59:59
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ReneDescartes wrote on 10/31/17 at 17:51:33:
And he's carelessly misleading about this point. He remarks that it does no harm to throw in 3.Nf3 if you want to avoid facing the Budapest, but it's not true! Part of his Gruenfeld repertoire depends on the possibility of Ne2.

Where does he say that, ReneDescartes?

Update: The only thing I noticed that in the Index of Variations, Chapter 4, it says 4.Nf3 0-0 5.Bg2 instead of 4.Bg2.
  
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Re: Damian Lemos Fianchetto System
Reply #22 - 10/31/17 at 17:51:33
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And he's carelessly misleading about this point. He remarks that it does no harm to throw in 3.Nf3 if you want to avoid facing the Budapest, but it's not true! Part of his Gruenfeld repertoire depends on the possibility of Ne2.
  
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Re: Damian Lemos Fianchetto System
Reply #21 - 10/31/17 at 13:14:51
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gillbod wrote on 10/05/16 at 19:12:50:
RdC wrote on 06/23/14 at 19:30:03:
How about
(d) 1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. g3 Bg7 4. Bg2 O-O 5. Nc3 other plausible moves.

The plausible moves being 5. .. c5, which can be an English if both players want it to be, 5. .. d6 and 5. .. Nc6, which are mainstream Kings Indian and not quite mainstream plus 5. .. c6 which can still become either a Kings Indian or Gruenfeld.

There's old theory that holding the Knight back on b1 can be an advantage in some KID variations as it can then go to d2 instead. If the move order of the book requires Nc3, that is ruled out.


Sorry for reviving this thread if no one is interested, but it seems this thread concluded prematurely.

I expect 5.e4 would be the move to play instead of 5.Nc3 to stay in Lemos's repertoire.

Lemos advocates 5.Nc3 d6 6.Nf3; 5...c5 6.Nf3.

Against 5...c6 I think both 6.e4 and 6.Nf3 stay in his repertoire depending on if you want the Grunfeld or not.

5...Nc6 6.Nf3 d5 would not be in his repertoire!

I am working on the book right now and was also thinking of 5.e4 as the best way to stay in his repertoire. Unless Black plays 5...c5... I think even after 5...d6 it may be difficult if Black doesn't cooperate.
« Last Edit: 10/31/17 at 15:16:29 by TD »  
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Re: Damian Lemos Fianchetto System
Reply #20 - 10/05/16 at 19:12:50
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RdC wrote on 06/23/14 at 19:30:03:
How about
(d) 1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. g3 Bg7 4. Bg2 O-O 5. Nc3 other plausible moves.

The plausible moves being 5. .. c5, which can be an English if both players want it to be, 5. .. d6 and 5. .. Nc6, which are mainstream Kings Indian and not quite mainstream plus 5. .. c6 which can still become either a Kings Indian or Gruenfeld.

There's old theory that holding the Knight back on b1 can be an advantage in some KID variations as it can then go to d2 instead. If the move order of the book requires Nc3, that is ruled out.


Sorry for reviving this thread if no one is interested, but it seems this thread concluded prematurely.

I expect 5.e4 would be the move to play instead of 5.Nc3 to stay in Lemos's repertoire.
  
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Re: Damian Lemos Fianchetto System
Reply #19 - 06/23/14 at 19:30:03
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tony37 wrote on 06/23/14 at 18:41:37:
[quote author=5A5E5C525906055B4D370 link=1382420107/17#17 date=1403544146]
of course line d isn't covered, it's a blunder


How about
(d) 1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. g3 Bg7 4. Bg2 O-O 5. Nc3 other plausible moves.

The plausible moves being 5. .. c5, which can be an English if both players want it to be, 5. .. d6 and 5. .. Nc6, which are mainstream Kings Indian and not quite mainstream plus 5. .. c6 which can still become either a Kings Indian or Gruenfeld.

There's old theory that holding the Knight back on b1 can be an advantage in some KID variations as it can then go to d2 instead. If the move order of the book requires Nc3, that is ruled out.
  
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Re: Damian Lemos Fianchetto System
Reply #18 - 06/23/14 at 18:41:37
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nestor wrote on 06/23/14 at 17:22:26:
Line c) isn't covered, as you say, and unless I'm missing something neither is line d). Since White must play either 5.Nc3 or 5.Nf3 in this move order, this rather reduces the book's utility full stop, not just for 1.Nf3 players.

of course line d isn't covered, it's a blunder
  
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Re: Damian Lemos Fianchetto System
Reply #17 - 06/23/14 at 17:22:26
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Line c) isn't covered, as you say, and unless I'm missing something neither is line d). Since White must play either 5.Nc3 or 5.Nf3 in this move order, this rather reduces the book's utility full stop, not just for 1.Nf3 players.
  
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Re: Damian Lemos Fianchetto System
Reply #16 - 06/23/14 at 13:59:13
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So of the various move orders, is this the material?

(a) 1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. g3 d5 - covered
(b) 1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. g3 Bg7 4. Bg2 d5 - covered
(c) 1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. g3 Bg7 4. Bg2 O-O 5. Nf3 d5 - not covered
(d) 1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. g3 Bg7 4. Bg2 O-O 5. Nc3 d5 - covered
(e) 1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. g3 Bg7 4. Bg2 O-O 5. Nc3 c6 6. Nf3 d5 - covered

If line (c) isn't included, this reduces the utility of the book to those who would prefer to start 1. Nf3, rather than 1. d4
  
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Re: Damian Lemos Fianchetto System
Reply #15 - 06/23/14 at 07:46:43
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Lemos gives some brief analysis of 15...Qd4, and also of ...Be6 instead of ...Bf5 at a couple of points. I won't quote the analysis as I don't think it's fair to the author and publisher; it may be enough to say that Lemos likes White's chances, but I can't see Radjabov or Giri being scared off.
  
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Re: Damian Lemos Fianchetto System
Reply #14 - 06/22/14 at 22:48:12
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TD wrote on 06/22/14 at 21:12:28:
7...Qc7 8.b3, Kramnik-Radjabov 2013.


Thanks.  I wonder if there's anything enlightening regarding Kramnik allowing and Radjabov avoiding 15...Qd4 (which the Yearbook gave as leading to equality in a couple of earlier games). 

Maybe if Lemos had been writing a book for Black, he would have used another 2013 game, Khismatullin-Giri (with 14...Be6 instead of 14...Bf5)  Smiley
  
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Re: Damian Lemos Fianchetto System
Reply #13 - 06/22/14 at 21:12:28
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kylemeister wrote on 06/22/14 at 20:42:25:
I wonder if Lemos would have White face 5. Nc3 c5 6. Nf3 cd 7. Nxd4 Qc7, which was described as "something of a problem for White" by Richard Palliser in a 2010 Yearbook article.  I see that the index of Lemos' book mentions 1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. g3 c5 4. Nf3 Bg7 5. Bg2 0-0 6. 0-0 d6 -- I presume he has something to say about 6...cd 7. Nxd4 d5 (also considered satisfactory for Black in the Palliser article)?

7...Qc7 8.b3, Kramnik-Radjabov 2013.

I couldn't find 6...cd 7.Nxd4 d5 in the games.
  
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Re: Damian Lemos Fianchetto System
Reply #12 - 06/22/14 at 20:42:25
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I wonder if Lemos would have White face 5. Nc3 c5 6. Nf3 cd 7. Nxd4 Qc7, which was described as "something of a problem for White" by Richard Palliser in a 2010 Yearbook article.  I see that the index of Lemos' book mentions 1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. g3 c5 4. Nf3 Bg7 5. Bg2 0-0 6. 0-0 d6 -- I presume he has something to say about 6...cd 7. Nxd4 d5 (also considered satisfactory for Black in the Palliser article)?
  
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Re: Damian Lemos Fianchetto System
Reply #11 - 06/22/14 at 20:06:20
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Lanark wrote on 06/22/14 at 18:51:21:
Am I missing something or is the move order
1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.g3 Bg7 4.Bg2 0-0 5.Nf3 d5
not covered in the book?

Lemos gives Grünfeld lines with c6 and lines with 4...d5 5.cxd5 Nxd5 6.e4 followed by Ne2, but after the sequence above Ne2 is no longer possible.

I just can't believe that such a natural move order ist not mentioned.
Maybe White should play 5.Nc3(?). I don't get it.

I believe Avrukh's book had the same problem of omitting 4...0-0 as was mentioned elsewhere. Avrukh chooses 5.Nc3 as does Lemos, according to the games in the index.

The strange thing is that, according to the Index of Variations, Lemos plays 4.Nf3 or 5.Nf3 against the KID...
  
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Re: Damian Lemos Fianchetto System
Reply #10 - 06/22/14 at 18:51:21
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Am I missing something or is the move order
1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.g3 Bg7 4.Bg2 0-0 5.Nf3 d5
not covered in the book?

Lemos gives Grünfeld lines with c6 and lines with 4...d5 5.cxd5 Nxd5 6.e4 followed by Ne2, but after the sequence above Ne2 is no longer possible.

I just can't believe that such a natural move order ist not mentioned.
Maybe White should play 5.Nc3(?). I don't get it.
  
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Re: Damian Lemos Fianchetto System
Reply #9 - 06/07/14 at 13:26:21
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I think what Lemos means is that he is thus avoiding transpositions to the Benoni and Benko with g2-g3 already in (ie. the fianchetto systems in those openings), not the openings themselves, and thus White is free to choose whichever system he/she prefers against the Benoni and Benko, not bound by the need to put the bishop on g2.
  
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Re: Damian Lemos Fianchetto System
Reply #8 - 06/03/14 at 06:32:14
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TN wrote on 10/22/13 at 05:51:07:
Perhaps he intends to meet 3.g3 c5 with 4.Nf3, which would indeed transpose to Symmetrical English lines after 4...cxd4 5.Nxd4.

Based on the pdf sample that's what he recommends in order to "eliminate the Benoni and Benko" - er, what about 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 c5? Okay, so he officially only offers a repertoire after 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.g3, but that's a bit cheeky, since anyone taking up the repertoire will need to learn those openings, after all, anyway (I suppose without being committed to g3, which may not be so great in those openings).
  
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Re: Damian Lemos Fianchetto System
Reply #7 - 05/28/14 at 12:28:20
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Any opinions about GID & KID compared to Avrukh and Hilton & Ippolito?

Any opinions about Symmetrical English compared to Khalifman, Marin and Hilton & Ippolito?
  
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Re: Damian Lemos Fianchetto System
Reply #6 - 05/22/14 at 19:05:06
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If I get some spare time in the next week or so I might do a more in-depth dive into this system and see what I come up with - never thought the line was super easy for Black, but I also recall finding a few interesting ways to play for the second player the first time I looked around.

The difference between 16 and 17.b3 might be minimal, but I'll certainly look into it.  Grin
  
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Re: Damian Lemos Fianchetto System
Reply #5 - 05/22/14 at 14:07:17
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That's interesting, Tony.  Incidentally my human brain would probably play 16.b3 there, which seems the most flexible way of doing everything, i.e. stopping ...Nc4 and preparing to move the rook before the knight gets to d2.  Meanwhile I'm holding back on the potentially weakening f2-f4 thrust for another few moves to see how Black responds.  After 16.b3 I also have ideas of pushing a4-a5 and driving the knight to a potentially poor square, and if 16...Bd7 (to clear the route ...Nb6-c8-d6) then 17.f4 probably gains in strength.  It might all just come to the same thing, though.

That's just my gut feeling, but yes overall the position after 15 moves does look pretty good for White to me.
  
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Re: Damian Lemos Fianchetto System
Reply #4 - 05/21/14 at 21:36:24
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I like this line for White quite a bit. Even if Black can prove equality somewhere, the positions are still very interesting, and I think if you prepared this line as White, you'd score better than average, as most people tend to not study lines like this.

I checked what Delchev and Agrest like for Black, and they recommend 7...c5! 8.d5 O-O 9.O-O e6! 10.Nec3 Na6 11.a4! Nb4!, their bangs not mine. Their line continues 12.Be3 Bd4! 13.Bxd4 cxd4 14.Na2 Nxa2 15.Rxa2 e5, when they give the finish 16.Nd2 a5 17.Qb3 Qd6 18.f4 f6.

Instead, my computer prefers the immediate 16.f4 f6 17.b3!?, stopping ...Nc4 and intending 18.Raf2. I like this position for White, who also has opportunities for a5 or Bh3 at the right moments too.



  
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Re: Damian Lemos Fianchetto System
Reply #3 - 05/21/14 at 19:48:52
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Regarding 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.g3 Bg7 4.Bg2 d5 5.cxd5 Nxd5 6.e4 Nb6 7.Ne2 --

Avrukh says he originally intended to recommend this line in GM Repertoire, but he failed to find an advantage for White after 7...c5 8.d5 e6. Vigorito says about the same thing in "Chess Developments: The Grunfeld". Oddly, Dembo recommends 7...e5, a line that scores very well for White. Mikhalchishin dismisses 7...e5 with a wave of the hand on his Chessbase DVD saying that it blocks in the bishop, and then doesn't even bother to recommend a response for White.
  
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Re: Damian Lemos Fianchetto System
Reply #2 - 10/23/13 at 07:43:33
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After thinking about your reply, it occurs to me that perhaps Lemos will (if he goes 3.g3 and not Nf3) recommend the system against the Gruny where White delays playing Nf3 and tries to get in e4 first, backed up by the Bg2.
  

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Re: Damian Lemos Fianchetto System
Reply #1 - 10/22/13 at 05:51:07
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Perhaps he intends to meet 3.g3 c5 with 4.Nf3, which would indeed transpose to Symmetrical English lines after 4...cxd4 5.Nxd4. With Avrukh already presenting a strong repertoire with 3.g3 (not to mention against it!) I'm curious to see what Lemos delivers.
  

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Damian Lemos Fianchetto System
10/22/13 at 05:35:07
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It seems that GM Lemos (I'm a fan) has a new book coming out that is largely about the Fianchetto KID and Grunfeld...the description, however, http://www.amazon.com/Opening-Repertoire-Fianchetto-Weapons-Grunfeld/dp/17819416...

also says "*Includes the King's Indian, Grunfeld and Symmetrical English. * "

  

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