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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Basque System (Read 5491 times)
Bibs
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Re: Basque System
Reply #14 - 12/21/13 at 12:42:36
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Time to put the sensible hat on.
Reputation of course.
Other players will think: "Tosser".
Most GMs don't make much cash at all, many just a short walk from the soup kitchen, so also not a good idea to annoy organisers, and risk invites.
  
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Girkassa
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Re: Basque System
Reply #13 - 12/21/13 at 08:56:51
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Uhohspaghettio wrote on 12/20/13 at 22:59:17:
I don't see why there should be an ethical or reputation issue about employing that method, as farcical as it may be. Wink


Maybe not unethical, but surely it must have reputational concequences? What organizer would invite a player known for using this strategy? I don't mind people playing "boring" chess, since a game can get interesting anyway, and the "boring" player still has to make good moves. This, however, is not even about playing chess.

Quote:
just make a rule that the position should not be the same after x moves, problem solved


I thought about that solution, but it has a drawback: the player using this strategy (let's call him player A, and the opponent player B) may choose to reach the xth move first. Say you draw the line at 10 moves, meaning that when 10 moves have been played in one game, the other game can not reach the exact same position. Now, consider the situation when 9 moves have been played in both games. White is at move in both games, and the positions are identical. Player A is waiting for player B to make the 10th move in player B's White game. When he does, player A deviates from his strategy and suddenly makes a reply with Black, reaching the 10th move. In the other game, player A is playing White, and he copies player B's White move. Now it is suddenly player B who is forced to deviate, and surely that was not the intention of the rule? If Black's 10th move is clearly the strongest in the position, it is actually player B who is punished by this rule.

TalJechin wrote on 12/21/13 at 00:02:26:
or just start one game first and after 5 moves each they can start game two. If both players want to play the same game twice, then let them...


Yeah, that sounds like a good idea. I think that would work.
« Last Edit: 12/21/13 at 19:35:20 by Girkassa »  
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TalJechin
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Re: Basque System
Reply #12 - 12/21/13 at 00:02:26
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Quote:
just make a rule that the position should not be the same after x moves, problem solved


or just start one game first and after 5 moves each they can start game two. If both players want to play the same game twice, then let them...
  
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battleangel
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Re: Basque System
Reply #11 - 12/20/13 at 23:47:47
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just make a rule that the position should not be the same after x moves, problem solved
  
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Uhohspaghettio
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Re: Basque System
Reply #10 - 12/20/13 at 22:59:17
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I don't see why there should be an ethical or reputation issue about employing that method, as farcical as it may be. Wink

If you can see a legal way of getting ahead or in this case not losing, then why not do it? Why give your opponent anything? I'm against admonishing people for playing in a way others think is lame or boring. Like a famous football/soccer analyst here said: "It's not meant to be entertaining. If you want entertainment, go to the pictures". If it becomes part of the players responsibility to play to the crowd, then it's less professional and less competitive.
 
  

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Girkassa
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Re: Basque System
Reply #9 - 12/20/13 at 19:45:57
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Keano wrote on 12/20/13 at 14:48:47:
chk wrote on 12/20/13 at 14:14:33:
dfan wrote on 12/18/13 at 16:40:07:
I would be afraid of one player trying to play the same game on both boards to assure an equal total result, but I guess this hasn't been an issue? You would fall behind on the clock, but I would hope that trying to win on time wouldn't be the only way of foiling this tactic.


This is a valid question!


No its not!


Why is it not? This looks like a relevant issue to me. It will probably never be an issue on a top level, like in the recent Mind Games, since the players would ruin their reputation by doing that. If the Basque system is to be used on lower levels, however, I would consider it relevant.

Another issue is the time controls. Consider a tournament with 2 hours for 40 moves and 1 hour for the rest, meaning that one game can last for 6 hours. Now if you want to implement the Basque system in such a tournament, you have to consider what to do with the time controls:
- If you keep them unchanged, you are practically giving the players much less time for the games.
- If you expand them, the playing sessions will be very long.
On shorter time controls, however, the Basque system sounds fun, and I would like to try it myself.
  
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Keano
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Re: Basque System
Reply #8 - 12/20/13 at 14:48:47
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chk wrote on 12/20/13 at 14:14:33:
dfan wrote on 12/18/13 at 16:40:07:
I would be afraid of one player trying to play the same game on both boards to assure an equal total result, but I guess this hasn't been an issue? You would fall behind on the clock, but I would hope that trying to win on time wouldn't be the only way of foiling this tactic.


This is a valid question!


No its not!
  
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chk
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Re: Basque System
Reply #7 - 12/20/13 at 14:14:33
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dfan wrote on 12/18/13 at 16:40:07:
I would be afraid of one player trying to play the same game on both boards to assure an equal total result, but I guess this hasn't been an issue? You would fall behind on the clock, but I would hope that trying to win on time wouldn't be the only way of foiling this tactic.


This is a valid question!
  

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Keano
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Re: Basque System
Reply #6 - 12/18/13 at 20:46:25
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One technical question, is it currently allowed by FIDE for rating purposes for a player to be playing two games at the same time???

I doubt it....
  
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brabo
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Re: Basque System
Reply #5 - 12/18/13 at 19:38:35
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TalJechin wrote on 12/18/13 at 18:37:35:
I think I suggested something like this here a few years ago, to no avail. Has it been tried in Basque country or how come its name?

It would be nice to see it tried at least. Didn't Bronstein and Tal play a match with something like this? Though they may have been using more than two boards iirc - was it four boards?, like a double simulmatch...  Smiley


See e.g. http://www.chessvibes.com/reports/san-sebastian-a-unique-format-and-a-gm-blogger...
The name originates from this event. In an interview with one of the organizers on chessbase, see http://en.chessbase.com/post/all-about-basque-interview-with-gm-feliz-izeta you can feel why the emphasis is on the Basque aspect and not the Spanish aspect.
  
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battleangel
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Re: Basque System
Reply #4 - 12/18/13 at 19:01:04
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World Mind Games in Peking that took place in the last days used the basque system as one tournament format.
I got to know about it from a news article from chessbase
http://en.chessbase.com/post/mind-games-day-6-basque-system-starts
  
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TalJechin
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Re: Basque System
Reply #3 - 12/18/13 at 18:37:35
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Quote:
What do you think about the basque system?
That is, playing two boards at the same time against the same opponent?
I think this way one could render the advantage of being the first to move void and create equal chances in a match


I think I suggested something like this here a few years ago, to no avail. Has it been tried in Basque country or how come its name?

It would be nice to see it tried at least. Didn't Bronstein and Tal play a match with something like this? Though they may have been using more than two boards iirc - was it four boards?, like a double simulmatch...  Smiley
  
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Keano
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Re: Basque System
Reply #2 - 12/18/13 at 17:24:22
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Quote:
What do you think about the basque system?
That is, playing two boards at the same time against the same opponent?
I think this way one could render the advantage of being the first to move void and create equal chances in a match


I like the sound of it!
  
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dfan
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Re: Basque System
Reply #1 - 12/18/13 at 16:40:07
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I would be afraid of one player trying to play the same game on both boards to assure an equal total result, but I guess this hasn't been an issue? You would fall behind on the clock, but I would hope that trying to win on time wouldn't be the only way of foiling this tactic.
  
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battleangel
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Basque System
12/18/13 at 15:52:10
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What do you think about the basque system?
That is, playing two boards at the same time against the same opponent?
I think this way one could render the advantage of being the first to move void and create equal chances in a match
  
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