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Poll closed Question: In Slav which line do you prefer and why?
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*** This poll has now closed ***


Classical Slav with 4... dxc4    
  37 (49.3%)
a6 Slav or Chebanenko    
  18 (24.0%)
Semi-Slav    
  20 (26.7%)




Total votes: 75
« Created by: rossia on: 12/27/13 at 18:01:16 »
Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Grandmaster Repertoire 17 – The Classical Slav (Read 37019 times)
cma6
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Re: Grandmaster Repertoire 17 – The Classical Slav
Reply #32 - 09/26/15 at 03:32:50
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Tony,
How is the coverage of D12  (4 e3, Bf5)?
Or do you have a link for the Table of Contents?
  
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Volcanor
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Re: Grandmaster Repertoire 17 – The Classical Slav
Reply #31 - 04/30/14 at 15:16:33
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I have the book since a few weeks, and my first impression is that it is a very nice Slav repertoire book, with excellent analysis and a lot of original analysis. In my opinion, anybody playing the Slav will incorporate at least some of Avrukh's suggestion in his/her repertoire. It's for sure the best black repertoire on this opening since Play the Slav from Vigus.

Of course, I have some concerns about a few points, but it's mainly personnal issues which are normal with any repertoire book.

1) The missing line in the Slav exchange has already been discussed previously, but the gap has been filled on QC website. Whether I like Avrukh's recommendations more than the ones from Vigus is another issue.

2) The Glasgow Kiss variation (1.d4 d5 2.c4 c6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.e3 Bf5!? 5.cxd5 cxd5 6.Qb3 Nc6!) is deeply investigated as a second option against 3.Nc3 / 4.e3. I was initially very enthusiastic about it, the quality of the analysis is great, this variation has a lot of surprise value, and so on. But I’m still wondering if I should incorporate it in my repertoire. Its major drawback regarding this repertoire book is that after 5.Nf3 (instead of 5.cxd5), the suggestion is to play 5… a6, transposing to 1.d4 d5 2.c4 c6 3.Nf3 Nf6 4.e3 Bf5 5.Nc3 a6. In my opinion, anybody playing the latter line against 3.Nf3 / 4.e3 should play Avrukh’s first recommendation against 3.Nc3 / 4.e3, that is 1.d4 d5 2.c4 c6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.e3 a6 (instead of Bf5), as only the 5.Qc2 alternative to 5.Nf3 Bf5 needs additional study, and 5.Qc2 is less challenging than the Glasgow Kiss variation. So, either I play the a6 stuff, or I play the Glasgow Kiss variation and I’d go for 1.d4 d5 2.c4 c6 3.Nf3/Nc3 Nf6 4.e3 Bf5 5.Nc3/Nf3 e6 (what else?) instead of 5…a6, with some challenging theory especially after 6.Nh4, but it’s not covered by Avrukh. To sum up, I’m happy Avrukh suggested the Glasgow Kiss variation as a second variation, but for a repertoire consistency, it seems logical to suggest also a second variation after the position resulting from 1.d4 d5 2.c4 c6 3.Nf3/Nc3 Nf6 4.e3 Bf5 5.Nc3/Nf3. But maybe I’m missing something. I have the feeling that Amenitos probably contributed to this part of the repertoire, so his opinion would be welcome.

3) Both repertoire suggestions against 6.Ne5 are not to my taste. It starts 1.d4 d5 2.c4 c6 3.Nf3 Nf6 4.Nc3 dxc4 5.a4 Bf5 6.Ne5 Nbd7 7.Nxc4 Qc7 8.g3 e5 9.dxe5 Nxe5 10.Bf4 Nfd7 11.Bg2 and then either 11...g5 or 11...f6 12.0-0 g5. I never studied these lines before reading this book, preferring 6…e6 or 7…Nb6. I’m happy I got a look at Avrukh’s lines, but I have the feeling it has the same drawback as some Semi-Slav Botvinnik lines, which is a lot of crazy moves to memorize. Then, if White knows his stuff and you remember the moves recommended by Avrukh (and you should, because the alternatives are often very poor), you can end up in a rather dry position with few pieces left on the board (that’s kind of fine), with some lines ending in perpetual at around move order 20 (a little bit less welcome), or you face a hot novelty played at high level or found out by a computer and you end up in a very poor position (no comment…). Some people like this kind of theory, but I suspect that most Slav players may be reluctant to learn these lines to play them OTB. I guess that for GM, this issue is probably irrelevant, so Avrukh’s choice is in accordance with the title series.

All in all, this book is of high quality, as any GM repertoire book I bought up to now. Whether it’s the best, I don’t know. But despite my above criticisms, it’s probably the one which is most useful for my personal repertoire up to now.
  
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fling
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Re: Grandmaster Repertoire 17 – The Classical Slav
Reply #30 - 04/22/14 at 15:27:17
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Okay, I see. Guess we'll have to wait for a "proper" review. I just got the book anyway, but haven't had time to look at it.
  
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Re: Grandmaster Repertoire 17 – The Classical Slav
Reply #29 - 04/22/14 at 08:44:56
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tp2205 wrote on 04/22/14 at 00:31:37:
huibui wrote on 04/21/14 at 23:26:05:


Seems to be totally devoid of content. I doubt that the guy read the book. The conclusion seems to be 'lots of great analysis' and a cheap shot at QC for improving Black's chances against the lines suggested in GM Repertoire 1.


I have to agree. Read some of his other reviews. They could be written after looking into book for 10 minutes.  Sad
  
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Re: Grandmaster Repertoire 17 – The Classical Slav
Reply #28 - 04/22/14 at 00:31:37
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huibui wrote on 04/21/14 at 23:26:05:


Seems to be totally devoid of content. I doubt that the guy read the book. The conclusion seems to be 'lots of great analysis' and a cheap shot at QC for improving Black's chances against the lines suggested in GM Repertoire 1.
  
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Re: Grandmaster Repertoire 17 – The Classical Slav
Reply #27 - 04/21/14 at 23:26:05
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You tell the young people of today that...
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Re: Grandmaster Repertoire 17 – The Classical Slav
Reply #26 - 04/21/14 at 20:52:53
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ErictheRed wrote on 03/17/14 at 02:29:15:
Anyone have the book, reviews, opinions, etc?


Has anyone seen the review Jacob Aagaard is talking about at the QC Blog?
http://www.qualitychess.co.uk/blog/?p=2718#comments
  
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Re: Grandmaster Repertoire 17 – The Classical Slav
Reply #25 - 03/24/14 at 17:03:32
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The update is available in .pdf-format.

http://www.qualitychess.co.uk/blog/?p=2682
  
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fling
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Re: Grandmaster Repertoire 17 – The Classical Slav
Reply #24 - 03/20/14 at 18:14:23
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ErictheRed wrote on 03/19/14 at 12:51:32:
I just think the PR wing of that company is terrible.


Maybe there isn't any? (OT, I know).
  
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Re: Grandmaster Repertoire 17 – The Classical Slav
Reply #23 - 03/19/14 at 12:51:32
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Oh clearly these things do happen, but the reason given is silly--we didn't check this one Black repertoire book (as though it's the only source that would cover this).  There should have been tons of other things to check, any older book (not just a recent repertoire book), any decent database (9.Qa4 is the most popular option in mine, by an admittedly very small margin over 9.0-0), etc. 

Clearly Shaw tried to strike a somewhat humorous tone, but I think it would have been better to just say "we're very sorry for this omission and are working to update the book as quickly as possible," without a silly excuse.  Maybe I'm completely wrong, but to me Quality Chess has terrible PR.

Anyway I'm sure the rest of the book is high quality and up to QC and Avrukh's standards.  There will always be mistakes and oversights, but this one is especially surprising to me because I considered it the main line of the whole Exchange Variation with 6...Bf5, at least when White tries for an advantage.  I'm sure they'll work to get the oversight corrected as quickly and accurately as possible--I just think the PR wing of that company is terrible.
  
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Re: Grandmaster Repertoire 17 – The Classical Slav
Reply #22 - 03/19/14 at 09:36:31
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Like Shaw admits in that blog post, even the same editor Smiley These things do happen.
  
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Re: Grandmaster Repertoire 17 – The Classical Slav
Reply #21 - 03/19/14 at 08:04:34
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fling wrote on 03/18/14 at 17:53:36:
But how can you possibly check all the sources in the Slav?  Wink



I think they need to check in-house sources first and foremost.
  

"Experience is a dim lamp, which only lights the one who bears it."
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Re: Grandmaster Repertoire 17 – The Classical Slav
Reply #20 - 03/18/14 at 17:53:36
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But how can you possibly check all the sources in the Slav?  Wink
  
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Re: Grandmaster Repertoire 17 – The Classical Slav
Reply #19 - 03/17/14 at 21:44:16
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Not covering 9.Qa4 is an enormous oversight, as barring the extremely unambitious 8.Bd3, I thought that was just the main line of the Exchange Slav with 6...Bf5.  Maybe in recent years 8.Qb3 has been more popular, but...wow.

And "we didn't read Playing the Semi-Slav" seems a pretty poor excuse, though I'm sure that they'll get an update out and mistakes do happen, of course.
  
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Re: Grandmaster Repertoire 17 – The Classical Slav
Reply #18 - 03/17/14 at 20:49:03
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Based on http://www.qualitychess.co.uk/blog/?p=2616 I'd expect an update about this variation, since the exchange is the main overlap with Vigorito's book.

I'm curious about the book but have got slightly fed up with these super detailed modern books so I'm waiting until I can browse a copy to decide about buying.
  
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Re: Grandmaster Repertoire 17 – The Classical Slav
Reply #17 - 03/17/14 at 20:03:59
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Gee, how could that old main line not be included?  I recall that it was considered += before 9...Rc8 was invented.  I also recall that one of the Kasparov Predecessor books thought that even after 9...Rc8 it might be possible for White to play for initiative, or some such wording.
  
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Re: Grandmaster Repertoire 17 – The Classical Slav
Reply #16 - 03/17/14 at 19:45:59
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Sweet. I've been wanting to see coverage of 6...Bf5 since I have seen a lot of ...a6 coverage in the exchange lately. But not covering 7.e3 e6 8.Bb5 Nd7 9.Qa6 is very strange. Bummer.
  
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Re: Grandmaster Repertoire 17 – The Classical Slav
Reply #15 - 03/17/14 at 08:22:32
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Avrukh recommends 6...Bf5 against the Exchange (which I don't play). It seems the line 7.e3 e6 8.Bb5 Nd7 9.Qa4 is missing?! I think the Quality of the book is good (off course), but because most of his repertoire-choices differ from mine I can't give a well-informed opinion about the lines he choses.
  
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Re: Grandmaster Repertoire 17 – The Classical Slav
Reply #14 - 03/17/14 at 07:49:17
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I second Eric's request of a review.

I'm curious to see what he recommends against the exchange and how good the ...a6 sections are. I know Avrukh is an amazing author but I'd still enjoy reading a review.
  
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Re: Grandmaster Repertoire 17 – The Classical Slav
Reply #13 - 03/17/14 at 02:29:15
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Anyone have the book, reviews, opinions, etc?
  
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Re: Grandmaster Repertoire 17 – The Classical Slav
Reply #12 - 01/24/14 at 15:12:02
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gwnn wrote on 01/24/14 at 15:10:06:
No he doesn't. From the intro:

Quote:
Also after 3.Nf3 Nf6 4.Nc3 dxc4 5.a4 Bf5 6.Ne5 I have given two lines, though both start
with 6...Nbd7. My main choice is the famous Morozevich Variation with a later ...g5, which I
eventually realized is both aggressive and solid – a fine combination! The other line I recommend
is much less well known, and I will leave the details as a surprise for later.


The contents are a bit confusing, though, I grant that. He has apparently 12 pages on 11 .. f6 and then about 30+ pages on "Morozevich" which really should be about 11 .. g5 as noted in the introduction.


i am easily confused, no doubt   Smiley

interesting .... gm shaw suggests (on the QC blog) that they have an improvement in the f6 lines

http://www.qualitychess.co.uk/blog/?p=2423#comment-42681


his quote with respect to 11. ... f6 being their repertoire move

"You are not mistaken about 11…f6, but the surprise move comes later. We were sneaky enough not to give it away in the excerpt."

  
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Re: Grandmaster Repertoire 17 – The Classical Slav
Reply #11 - 01/24/14 at 15:10:06
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No he doesn't. From the intro:

Quote:
Also after 3.Nf3 Nf6 4.Nc3 dxc4 5.a4 Bf5 6.Ne5 I have given two lines, though both start
with 6...Nbd7. My main choice is the famous Morozevich Variation with a later ...g5, which I
eventually realized is both aggressive and solid – a fine combination! The other line I recommend
is much less well known, and I will leave the details as a surprise for later.


The contents are a bit confusing, though, I grant that. He has apparently 12 pages on 11 .. f6 and then about 30+ pages on "Morozevich" which really should be about 11 .. g5 as noted in the introduction.
  
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Re: Grandmaster Repertoire 17 – The Classical Slav
Reply #10 - 01/24/14 at 14:50:03
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looks like he offers 11. ....f6 in the old classical line instead of 11. .... g5 so it will be interesting to see what he has to counter schandorff's line there which really gives white a strong (winning ?!) pull ... alos looks interesting he may have some good ideas in the newly minted glasgow kiss var.

looking forward to this book as classical slav has been my main d4 defense
  
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Re: Grandmaster Repertoire 17 – The Classical Slav
Reply #9 - 01/24/14 at 09:58:12
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If so, now I'm interested as this is the same as bologan in his Chebanenko DVD.
  
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Re: Grandmaster Repertoire 17 – The Classical Slav
Reply #8 - 01/23/14 at 22:58:36
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judging from the table of contents, I think he proposes 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.e3 a6 (he also gives 4...Bf5) 5.Nf3 and now 5...Bf5, which leads me to think he also proposes 3.Nf3 Nf6 4.e3 Bf5 5.Nc3 a6, which is of course the same thing
interesting...
  
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Re: Grandmaster Repertoire 17 – The Classical Slav
Reply #7 - 01/23/14 at 19:14:44
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An excerpt of Avrukh's "The Classical Slav" can be found on http://www.qualitychess.co.uk/products/1/221/grandmaster_repertoire_17_-_the_cla...
  
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Re: Grandmaster Repertoire 17 – The Classical Slav
Reply #6 - 01/20/14 at 17:16:04
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I have to say the Classical Slav is distinctly unpopular in correspondence chess, you get truckloads of Semi-Slavs, an a6-Slav once in a while, but Classical Slavs are very rare, I guess because of no realistic prospects of getting counterchances with black, which doesn't necessarily tell much about the situation in OTB chess
  
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Re: Grandmaster Repertoire 17 – The Classical Slav
Reply #5 - 01/09/14 at 14:06:21
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The Chebanenko appeals to me, as it's strategically very flexible and Black doesn't give up the centre with dxc4 as often as in the others and thus it's easier to play.

Though, OTB I must confess that the Exchange variation is a bit of a kill-joy. It's simply no fun to just be playing for a draw. White's winning chances are hardly overwhelming - but they're still there...
  
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Re: Grandmaster Repertoire 17 – The Classical Slav
Reply #4 - 01/09/14 at 12:31:12
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I first tried the Slav of any description when following Kaufman's original Opening Advantage in Black and White. However, trying to get to grips with the huge range of positions from the semi-slav, Moscow and anti-Moscow I found daunting, as well as some QGD exchange positions. This led to interest in the Chebanenko from Andrew Martin's DVD and followed this with Bologan's. I've never tried the classical Slav. Might it suit it better ? I don't know but what I am convinced of is that at my level (1910 ELO) it's more important that I believe in the line I play. An essential part of belief is familiarity and feel. This is more possible with a manageable range of lines in a repertoire. It may be against conventional wisdom these days but I prefer to play the same lines to develop that feel. The Chebanenko I find certainly more manageable than the semi-Slav / Moscow / anti-Moscow. Do others believe the Chebanenko to cover less ground that the Classical Slav ?
  
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Re: Grandmaster Repertoire 17 – The Classical Slav
Reply #3 - 01/04/14 at 12:53:59
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I would second Chevy's description of the Classical Slav as a solid but active opening.  My own path to the classical actually started with the a6 Slav before moving to the classical.  I like the type of (mostly) interesting positions that result which test both players.  I'm quite happy with both the classical and a6 Slavs in my repertoire and feel that the classical slav gives me reasonable winning chances as Black.
  
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Re: Grandmaster Repertoire 17 – The Classical Slav
Reply #2 - 12/27/13 at 18:47:53
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Well Semkov's description could make a case for playing the Classical Slav as Black. I've played both sides. It's a solid and active opening. I agree that the typical +/= assessments can be difficult for White to prove in practice. (Often the advantage evaporates after a small inaccuracy.) I remember someone on here opining this was a bad opening for Black, but maybe he didn't face it much as White!

I think there's a case for knowing something about all three Slavs. There is a lot of room for different approaches and knowledge of each can sometimes be helpful in countering sidelines or preparing for certain types of players.
  
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Re: Grandmaster Repertoire 17 – The Classical Slav
Reply #1 - 12/27/13 at 18:01:16
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Please explain why you voted for chosen option!

Thanks.
  
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Grandmaster Repertoire 17 – The Classical Slav
12/27/13 at 17:57:10
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In early 2014 Black players will have complete repertoire written by Boris Avrukh, Olympiad gold medalist and former World Junior Champion, in The Classical Slav which "provides a sound and active repertoire based on 1.d4 d5 2.c4 c6 3.Nf3 Nf6 4.Nc3 dxc4. Avrukh also covers White's early alternatives, in particular the popular systems with 4.e3."

What do you think about Classical Slav, and how is compared with a6 Slav and Semi-Slav?

Once IM Semko Semkov  from Chess Stars wrote:

"I do not know about you, but for me the Classical Slav is one of the
most difficult openings to understand. This is an opening for champions
and the better wins. A very strong GM could lose as White (against
people with deep positional understanding) without committing any
obvious mistake. You can never learn the Classic Slav. You have to feel
it. It is full of variations with the deceiving tag "+=" which could be
true, but it is extremely easy to lose orientation. That's why most
professionals prefer to avoid it. This could be achieved exactly by the
move order we consider in our book: 1.d4 d5 2.c4 c6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.e3. Some people say that the Botvinnik is the better choice. Even if that
were true, (and I do not think so), that does not solve the main
problem - how to avoid the Classical Slav. I repeat, you just cannot
learn this opening. The Anti-Meran is many times easier, even in its
most extreme forms like 7.g4."
  
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