OrangeCounty wrote on 03/20/14 at 19:43:47:


That's the case  for not playing e4. The case for not playing Nc3 is usually related to reducing Black's option in the event of an attempted transposition to Gruenfeld ideas by the early d5.

The importance of these early move order variations is probably over-stated unless you have a very definite idea of what positions you would like to reach and which ones you want to avoid.

It would be nice if 6...c5 worked for Black, as after 7.d5 e6! it already looks like White is struggling.  But if just 7.Bg2 I don't really see a way to punish White.  Still, it's hard to believe that Black could actually achieve more than equality, so the second player should be happy here as well.

It brought to mind the line 1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. Nf3 Bg7 4. g3 O-O 5. Bg2 d6 6. O-O c5 7. d5 b5 8. cxb5 a6 9. bxa6 Bf5!, which White should probably avoid.  I used to try to play this way as Black, but no-one ever played 7.d5 against me.

In the position in question, though, 6...Bg4! does look like the way to punish White.

Bibs wrote on 12/29/13 at 08:48:22:


Presumably something like 6...Bg4 7.Bg2 Nc6 8.Be3 e5 9.d5 Nd4, right?  It does look pretty good for the second player.

Also I think e.g.  6. g3 c5 7. d5 e6, opening things up before White castles is nice for Black.

Therefore I think the reasons for delaying Nc3 and e4 may be to do with getting castled quickly, which g3 makes a move slower.

I'm trying to navigate the maze of move order options associated with a White opening repertoire built around Nf3 and c4, ideally using the fianchetto variation against the Kings Indian.

It appears to be the case that in the most common move orders, White defers playing the moves e4 and Nc3 until the later part of the opening.  e.g. a typical position would be one that emerges from the following line:

1.Nf3 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.g3 Bg7 4.Bg2 0-0 5. d4 d6 6. 0-0

Whereas if one follows an anti-Grunfeld move order like:

1.Nf3 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nc3 Bg7 4.e4 d6 5.d4 0-0

then 6. Be2 is almost universally played here, with it being uncommon to enter the fianchetto variation with 6. g3.  But in the relatively rare instances 6. g3 is played, it's most common for the game to transpose back to the mainlines with moves like 6...Nbd7 7.Bg2 e5 8.0-0.

So could any KID move order whizzes opine on why e4 and Nc3 are typically delayed, and why 6. g3 is rarely played in the line above?  I feel like I'm missing something here.  Thanks!