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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) The Extreme Caro-Kann (Read 19390 times)
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Re: The Extreme Caro-Kann
Reply #14 - 04/02/15 at 12:45:36
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So I think that white's best possibility is transpoition to the French Defence.
  
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Re: The Extreme Caro-Kann
Reply #13 - 04/02/15 at 12:43:39
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My recomendation on the fantasy line is 3...e6. Sorry for russian text.
  
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Re: The Extreme Caro-Kann
Reply #12 - 09/01/14 at 22:03:09
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The fantasy variation hasn't felt challenging to me in the last 2 years. If anything almost drawish, playing the mainlines of 3... dxe4 4. fxe4 e5. I had a recent master win as black playing this way, albeit it was against the pawn grabbing Qb3 line not the mainline. I've heard several opening books dismissing Schandorff's set up in this line as somehow inferior, but haven't been seeing this inferiority in my games yet. I think black's development is so easy in the fantasy I just don't feel a lot of pressure, unlike some Panov or Advanced lines where you have to be well prepared and ready to fight. 

Maybe I'm just ignorant of the new attacking systems white has developed to punish the Nd7-Bg4-Ngf6-Bd6-o-o easy set up, with Qc7-rooks on e8 and d8 plus a timely Bh5 thrown in for good measure. 

I'm sure the e6 variation is also quite nice if you know the french.
  

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Re: The Extreme Caro-Kann
Reply #11 - 02/23/14 at 16:53:45
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If White is forbidden from play Qg4 in the Winawer French, he would usually have no advantage. 3. f3 e6 4. Nc3 Bb4 is precisely that scenario. Tempo-loss or not is irrelevant from Black's point of veiw.
  
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Re: The Extreme Caro-Kann
Reply #10 - 02/20/14 at 14:01:56
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lnn2 wrote on 02/14/14 at 12:09:02:
The mutual tempo loss is a good trade-off for Black. In the French it is perfectly legitimate for Black to lose tempi and play waiting moves in order to achieve strategic goals. That is not true for White if White wants an advantage. 

f3 also prevents kingside piece attacks (e.g. Qg4) which is one of White's most critical ideas against slow moves by Black. Thus Black can take his time with b6/Ba6 with no repercussions. 


Surely the mutual tempo losses merely cancel each other out?  3...e6 4.Nc3 Nf6 5.e5 Nfd7 6.f4 c5 is a direct transposition to a main-line French.  

In a practical sense White is committed to f4 lines against the Classical French, but there are no theoretical problems for White.  It's not like he's playing 1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.e5 c5 4.c3 Nc6 5.f4?! or something, and 3.f3 e6 4.Nc3 Bb4 hasn't given White any problems in practice.  Black's OK, sure, but no more OK than any other main-line French, as far as I'm aware.  
  
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Re: The Extreme Caro-Kann
Reply #9 - 02/15/14 at 13:56:53
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I have played Qb6 in many blitz games and I find this line very interesting for black so I hope that this system becomes more popular so I may play against it in "real games" as well
  
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Re: The Extreme Caro-Kann
Reply #8 - 02/14/14 at 12:09:02
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The mutual tempo loss is a good trade-off for Black. In the French it is perfectly legitimate for Black to lose tempi and play waiting moves in order to achieve strategic goals. That is not true for White if White wants an advantage. 

f3 also prevents kingside piece attacks (e.g. Qg4) which is one of White's most critical ideas against slow moves by Black. Thus Black can take his time with b6/Ba6 with no repercussions. 

MNb wrote on 02/13/14 at 19:55:48:
lnn2 wrote on 02/13/14 at 15:31:27:
Interestingly Bezgodov appears to think that 3... e6 is Black's strongest and I agree with this view. The entire f3 concept has no place whatsover in a French structure.  This is known to be equal for decades and Dreev plays nothing else.

Dreev lost two out of four games last 15 years (against Ni Hua and Nepomniachtchi) so that's not saying much.
Of course White argues that the pawn on c6 doesn't have any place whatsoever in a French structure either. Losing a tempo with c6-c5 justifies losing a tempo with f3-f4, especially if Black plays Ng8-f6. That leaves Black with setups involving ...Bb4. Nataf-Motylev, EUch 2003 presents your case better than Dreev.

  
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Re: The Extreme Caro-Kann
Reply #7 - 02/14/14 at 09:27:49
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Having struggled sometimes against it, I have respect for the Fantasy variation (not sure where i picked that name up). I agree that ...de lines would seem to give White what he's looking for. I played e6 a few times with partial success. Black can get cramped although avoiding Nf6, preferring Ne7 and Nd7 seems a good line.
The more adventurous Qb6 is my favourite at present but I've only got to play it once. I hope the line becomes more popular as I look forward to the battle after Qb6.
  
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Re: The Extreme Caro-Kann
Reply #6 - 02/13/14 at 19:55:48
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lnn2 wrote on 02/13/14 at 15:31:27:
Interestingly Bezgodov appears to think that 3... e6 is Black's strongest and I agree with this view. The entire f3 concept has no place whatsover in a French structure.  This is known to be equal for decades and Dreev plays nothing else.

Dreev lost two out of four games last 15 years (against Ni Hua and Nepomniachtchi) so that's not saying much.
Of course White argues that the pawn on c6 doesn't have any place whatsoever in a French structure either. Losing a tempo with c6-c5 justifies losing a tempo with f3-f4, especially if Black plays Ng8-f6. That leaves Black with setups involving ...Bb4. Nataf-Motylev, EUch 2003 presents your case better than Dreev.
  

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Re: The Extreme Caro-Kann
Reply #5 - 02/13/14 at 15:31:27
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Interestingly Bezgodov appears to think that 3... e6 is Black's strongest and I agree with this view. The entire f3 concept has no place whatsover in a French structure.  This is known to be equal for decades and Dreev plays nothing else.

Thus I'm rather puzzled by recent Black repertoire books all wanting to try other replies (e.g. Schandorff recommending 3...de4 4. fe4 e5. Surely the open f file rather justifies White's third move?)
  
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Re: The Extreme Caro-Kann
Reply #4 - 01/13/14 at 12:00:18
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MartinC wrote on 01/13/14 at 09:30:14:
Basically in a sane world this sort of surprise weapon just doesn't need a full repitoire book. You look up the small bits of theory from a database and go. Maybe drag a comp in briefly if really keen. People play like this to avoid deep theory.

If you want to do a whole book you'd bundle a bunch of this sort of thing together as per the dangerous weapons stuff. 

With computers though you can write whole books on this sort of thing and they've already written all of the sane opening books but must keep producing, so.....


With the greatest respect, MartinC, 3. f3 is a respectable line in its own right. Plenty of theory in this line, plenty to know. 
And please, please, I beg you, spell repertoire correctly. 
Buy the QC Tromp book with the name Pert shoved in to Repertoire.  Clever that.
This is not the ECForum where professional northerners spell randomly and still hope to be taken seriously.
  
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Re: The Extreme Caro-Kann
Reply #3 - 01/13/14 at 09:30:14
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Basically in a sane world this sort of surprise weapon just doesn't need a full repitoire book. You look up the small bits of theory from a database and go. Maybe drag a comp in briefly if really keen. People play like this to avoid deep theory.

If you want to do a whole book you'd bundle a bunch of this sort of thing together as per the dangerous weapons stuff. 

With computers though you can write whole books on this sort of thing and they've already written all of the sane opening books but must keep producing, so.....
  
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Re: The Extreme Caro-Kann
Reply #2 - 01/13/14 at 00:13:57
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I dont recall seeing much stuff written on the fantasy variation of the Caro Kann before which kind of surprises me as i would think it is relatively common in club chess (at least in Britain) and would therefore have a market.
  

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Re: The Extreme Caro-Kann
Reply #1 - 01/12/14 at 22:38:00
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Well, after all the Sicilian seems to be under a special sort of pressure after 2.a3, with not so typical pictures you otherwise in the main lines might expect, or?! It's outflanking the one who tries to outflank white in the centre.

So with the new books I just see that the white side takes a closer look just on other ways to play. 
Allways a good idea, so...
  

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The Extreme Caro-Kann
01/12/14 at 21:24:53
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The Extreme Caro-Kann
Attacking Black with 3.f3
by Alexei Bezgodov
New in Chess, 2014, 272 pages

This book just popped up in the New in Chess shop. Sample pages are available at http://www.newinchess.com/Shop/Images/Pdfs/992.pdf
If the recent appearance of books on the Fantasy Caro-Kann, the 2.a3 Sicilian and the King's Gambit happens to be a result of market demand, I guess 1.e4 players are getting a little desperate these days Cheesy
  
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