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Normal Topic A36: Sources for symmetrical botvinnik english (Read 3433 times)
Pale Horse, Pale Rider
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Re: A36: Sources for symmetrical botvinnik english
Reply #4 - 01/17/14 at 22:33:42
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Vass wrote on 01/13/14 at 20:45:18:
A good set of correspondence chess games can be a starting point for you:

It seems 11.a4 in this exact position does the job.  Roll Eyes


Thank you very much for the input. Basically exactly what I needed. I will check the games carefully and be better prepared next time  Wink

After giving this a bit of thought, I think Marin should actually cover this under the move order:

1. c4 Nf6 2. g3 g6 3. Bg2 Bg7 4. Nc3 O-O 5. e4 d6 6. Nge2 c5 7. O-O Nc6 8. d3

where he discusses

8...Ne8
8...Rb8

either I'm really confused or 8...Bd7 isn't considered (also not via transposition). That also implies that the equalizing line Vass mentioned (8...Bd7 9. h3 Ne8 10. Be3 Nd4) cannot be found.
  
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Re: A36: Sources for symmetrical botvinnik english
Reply #3 - 01/13/14 at 22:35:25
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TonyRo wrote on 01/13/14 at 21:15:18:
When I was studying this line (for both sides), I thought White had better chances when Black started the migration of his knight to c7 after ...a6 and ...Rb8 and White had played a4.

If my memory serves me correctly, I thought that something like 9...Ne8 10.Be3 Nd4! was the easiest way to equalize as Black, but maybe I'm mistaken.


Yes, drink a glass of champagne....because your memory is good!  Grin
9...Ne8 10.Be3 Nd4! is the line for black, not the above played 9...Rb8.
Correspondence chess games results prove it, too.. As an example, here the first player had to play a2-a4 in order to exchange his c3-knight on b5, just to achieve....a draw. Other guys had difficulties in this exact position, too.. Imho, the position is equal and playable for both sides, so the first player doesn't have to worry about white's chances.
Here is the game I chose to show you in response to your words (great game, by the way - no doubt about it):
  
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Re: A36: Sources for symmetrical botvinnik english
Reply #2 - 01/13/14 at 21:15:18
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When I was studying this line (for both sides), I thought White had better chances when Black started the migration of his knight to c7 after ...a6 and ...Rb8 and White had played a4.

If my memory serves me correctly, I thought that something like 9...Ne8 10.Be3 Nd4! was the easiest way to equalize as Black, but maybe I'm mistaken.
  
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Vass
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Re: A36: Sources for symmetrical botvinnik english
Reply #1 - 01/13/14 at 20:45:18
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A good set of correspondence chess games can be a starting point for you:



It seems 11.a4 in this exact position does the job.  Roll Eyes
  
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Pale Horse, Pale Rider
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A36: Sources for symmetrical botvinnik english
01/13/14 at 20:03:29
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Hello chessfriends. I've playing the english for quite a while now and always met the symmetrical english with a botvinnik set-up with 5. e4:



I know that this is not supposed to be cutting edge but I enjoy the set-up and had some good access with it. Since I lately made some progress (yay!) I had to face better prepared opponents. I don't really want to switch my opening choice but rather deepen my understand of the structure and probably also some moves. Especially against early queenside action by black my standard set-up (with d3, h3, Be3) might not work so well (see pgn below for a practical example from my tournament play). So I'm searching for good resources for a better understanding of the structure, typical maneuvers and maybe even repertoire suggestions in literature. The books on the english I know (Kosten, Marin, Carlstedt) do recommend other systems. Anyone with suggestions? Much appreciated.



I think 11. Rb1 is not a good move as well and I really messed up with 12. Qd2.
  
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