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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) London System Question (Read 16040 times)
LostTactic
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Re: London System Question
Reply #27 - 04/15/14 at 03:37:17
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ErictheRed wrote on 04/15/14 at 01:58:08:
Yes of course it is, though you're giving Black extra options such as 1...c5.


Thanks, not bothered about 1...c5 as I face that occasionally anyway.
  
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ErictheRed
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Re: London System Question
Reply #26 - 04/15/14 at 01:58:08
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LostTactic wrote on 04/15/14 at 01:28:45:
I would like to know if it's ok to reach the London via 1.Nf3? For example; 1.Nf3 d5 2.d4 Nf6 3.Bf4, 1.Nf3 Nf6 2.d4 g6 3.Bf4 or 1.Nf3 Nf6 2.d4 e6 3.Bf4.


Yes of course it is, though you're giving Black extra options such as 1...c5.
  
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LostTactic
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Re: London System Question
Reply #25 - 04/15/14 at 01:28:45
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I didn't want to start a new thread to ask this question because I expect it's pretty dumb, but I have question regarding a move-order.

I would like to know if it's ok to reach the London via 1.Nf3? For example; 1.Nf3 d5 2.d4 Nf6 3.Bf4, 1.Nf3 Nf6 2.d4 g6 3.Bf4 or 1.Nf3 Nf6 2.d4 e6 3.Bf4. It just seems to be a direct transposition. I only ask the question because I play 1.Nf3 exclusively and would consider adding the London to my repertoire for rapidplay events if it's just as simple as the above. Thanks to anyone who answers!
  
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Aziridine
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Re: London System Question
Reply #24 - 02/03/14 at 02:23:19
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Just 6.b3 I guess.
  
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Anonymous3
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Re: London System Question
Reply #23 - 02/03/14 at 01:14:49
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Aziridine wrote on 02/02/14 at 16:11:31:
Anonymous3 wrote on 02/01/14 at 23:01:06:
1.d4 d5 2.Bf4 c5 3.e3 Nc6 4.c3 f6!? 5.Nf3 g5 6.Bg3 h5 7.h3 Nh6 8.dxc5 e5 and now:

9.b4 Nf5 10.Bh2 Be6 which I think is at least = for Black

Perhaps. Practically speaking I doubt Black plays like this very often, at least not without preparation - he has to reckon with 6.Nxg5!? for instance.
Another option for White to consider is 5.Bd3 g6 6.Nf3. I still have a hard time believing that ...f6 is strong here when White virtually never plays f3 in the Baltic.

After 5.Bd3, what about 5...Qb6?
  
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Aziridine
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Re: London System Question
Reply #22 - 02/02/14 at 16:11:31
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I've been assuming the OP is trying to avoid 4.Nf3 Nf6 5.c3 Qb6 with his move order, as recommended on this site and elsewhere. It's debatable whether 4.c3's objectively any better, but let's leave that for another thread.
Anonymous3 wrote on 02/01/14 at 23:01:06:
1.d4 d5 2.Bf4 c5 3.e3 Nc6 4.c3 f6!? 5.Nf3 g5 6.Bg3 h5 7.h3 Nh6 8.dxc5 e5 and now:

9.b4 Nf5 10.Bh2 Be6 which I think is at least = for Black

Perhaps. Practically speaking I doubt Black plays like this very often, at least not without preparation - he has to reckon with 6.Nxg5!? for instance.
Another option for White to consider is 5.Bd3 g6 6.Nf3. I still have a hard time believing that ...f6 is strong here when White virtually never plays f3 in the Baltic.
  
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ErictheRed
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Re: London System Question
Reply #21 - 02/02/14 at 15:34:34
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Anonymous3 wrote on 02/01/14 at 23:01:06:
Aziridine wrote on 02/01/14 at 17:24:04:
Can I not just take on c5?

1.d4 d5 2.Bf4 c5 3.e3 Nc6 4.c3 f6!? 5.Nf3 g5 6.Bg3 h5 7.h3 Nh6 8.dxc5 e5 and now:

9.b4 Nf5 10.Bh2 Be6 which I think is at least = for Black

9.c4 d4 10.exd4 exd4 11.Bd3 Qe7+ =


Guys, guys!  I've been thinking about this for a long time, and I think I have an idea: 4.Nf3!?.

I know, I know.  It looks completely crazy at first--actively developing a knight to f3, controlling d4 and e5, instead of the purely overprotecting 4.c3!!.  But it might be worth a try in a practical game for surprise value.
  
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Anonymous3
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Re: London System Question
Reply #20 - 02/01/14 at 23:01:06
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Aziridine wrote on 02/01/14 at 17:24:04:
Can I not just take on c5?

1.d4 d5 2.Bf4 c5 3.e3 Nc6 4.c3 f6!? 5.Nf3 g5 6.Bg3 h5 7.h3 Nh6 8.dxc5 e5 and now:

9.b4 Nf5 10.Bh2 Be6 which I think is at least = for Black

9.c4 d4 10.exd4 exd4 11.Bd3 Qe7+ =
  
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Aziridine
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Re: London System Question
Reply #19 - 02/01/14 at 17:24:04
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Can I not just take on c5?
  
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Anonymous3
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Re: London System Question
Reply #18 - 02/01/14 at 06:25:11
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Aziridine wrote on 02/01/14 at 05:49:29:
Anonymous3 wrote on 02/01/14 at 04:57:21:
Good analysis, thanks. There is also the rare 1.d4 d5 2.Bf4 c5 3.e3 Nc6 4.c3 f6!? which is tricky and seems to be at least equal for Black. What are your thoughts on this line?

What worries you after 5.Nf3?

5...g5 6.Bg3 h5 7.h3 Nh6
  
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Aziridine
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Re: London System Question
Reply #17 - 02/01/14 at 05:49:29
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Anonymous3 wrote on 02/01/14 at 04:57:21:
Good analysis, thanks. There is also the rare 1.d4 d5 2.Bf4 c5 3.e3 Nc6 4.c3 f6!? which is tricky and seems to be at least equal for Black. What are your thoughts on this line?

What worries you after 5.Nf3? It's hard for me to see how Black can actually force through ...e5, and if he can't he's probably just worse. If White rarely finds it rarely worthwhile to play f3+e4 against the Baltic, I doubt Black's going to fare well with reversed colours and without the extra tempo.
  
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Anonymous3
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Re: London System Question
Reply #16 - 02/01/14 at 04:57:21
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Aziridine wrote on 01/29/14 at 18:05:06:
Anonymous3 wrote on 01/28/14 at 22:01:57:
What about 5...Qxd5 6.Nc3 Qa5 7.dxe5 fxe5 8.Bg3 Bb4 9.Qb3 Nf6 10.Nf3 Ne4?

Now we're getting somewhere. 9.Ne2 is an obvious improvement though - the threat of 10.a3 gaining time or winning the bishop pair forces Black to do something fast, and 10...Bg4 11.f3 isn't it (if White's bishop was on g5 Black would have 11...e4 here). Again Black has tricky computer ideas like 10...Bf5 11.a3 Rd8 12.Qc1! Qb6!?, but after 13.Bh4 Nge7 14.Ng3 Bxc3+ 15.Qxc3 Nd5 16.Qc1! Qa5+ 17.Qd2 Qxd2+ 18.Kxd2 White emerges with the bishop pair and better pawns in the endgame.
4.c4 might not be White's cleanest solution but it still works well. Black doesn't play ...f6 and ...e5 for the sake of getting an isolated e-pawn.

Good analysis, thanks. There is also the rare 1.d4 d5 2.Bf4 c5 3.e3 Nc6 4.c3 f6!? which is tricky and seems to be at least equal for Black. What are your thoughts on this line?
  
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Aziridine
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Re: London System Question
Reply #15 - 01/29/14 at 18:05:06
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Anonymous3 wrote on 01/28/14 at 22:01:57:
What about 5...Qxd5 6.Nc3 Qa5 7.dxe5 fxe5 8.Bg3 Bb4 9.Qb3 Nf6 10.Nf3 Ne4?

Now we're getting somewhere. 9.Ne2 is an obvious improvement though - the threat of 10.a3 gaining time or winning the bishop pair forces Black to do something fast, and 10...Bg4 11.f3 isn't it (if White's bishop was on g5 Black would have 11...e4 here). Again Black has tricky computer ideas like 10...Bf5 11.a3 Rd8 12.Qc1! Qb6!?, but after 13.Bh4 Nge7 14.Ng3 Bxc3+ 15.Qxc3 Nd5 16.Qc1! Qa5+ 17.Qd2 Qxd2+ 18.Kxd2 White emerges with the bishop pair and better pawns in the endgame.
4.c4 might not be White's cleanest solution but it still works well. Black doesn't play ...f6 and ...e5 for the sake of getting an isolated e-pawn.
  
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GMTonyKosten
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Re: London System Question
Reply #14 - 01/29/14 at 00:52:06
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Anonymous3 wrote on 01/28/14 at 22:01:57:
Aziridine wrote on 01/28/14 at 18:39:01:
5.cxd5 improves over that game. 5...Nb4 6.dxe5 Bf5 is tricky, but there is 7.e4! Bxe4 8.Nc3 Nc2+ 9.Ke2 Bf5 10.Rc1 Nb4 11.Ke1!. It turns out Black's king isn't safer than White's.

What about 5...Qxd5 6.Nc3 Qa5 7.dxe5 fxe5 8.Bg3 Bb4 9.Qb3 Nf6 10.Nf3 Ne4?


There was a game  Jugelt,T (2398)-Shteinberg,V (2171)/Dresden 2009 that continued 8 Bg5 Bb4 (by transposition) instead, when 9 Qb3 Nf6 10 Bxf6 gxf6 might have been a tiny bit better for White, so 5 cxd5 does look a little better than 5 dxe5.
  
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Anonymous3
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Re: London System Question
Reply #13 - 01/28/14 at 22:01:57
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Aziridine wrote on 01/28/14 at 18:39:01:
5.cxd5 improves over that game. 5...Nb4 6.dxe5 Bf5 is tricky, but there is 7.e4! Bxe4 8.Nc3 Nc2+ 9.Ke2 Bf5 10.Rc1 Nb4 11.Ke1!. It turns out Black's king isn't safer than White's.

What about 5...Qxd5 6.Nc3 Qa5 7.dxe5 fxe5 8.Bg3 Bb4 9.Qb3 Nf6 10.Nf3 Ne4?
  
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