51... Rd3 

And Black ties up the White rook to the d-pawn while retaining pawn mobility.  And if the White king comes any close to the c-pawn, he runs the risk of being cut-off from the center pawn and the Black king stops them with the black rook.

I got this line analyzed to moves 60-63.  It goes no where.

Anything else ?

Edited:

I did not include Rb1 because a4 seemed stronger and more ambitious.

The line after Rb1, which I have analyzed before, seems to lead straight to a drawn endgame.

But it makes sense for you to go Rb1 since it is already shown that the other option goes no where.

Again, white has no slight edge since Black immediately gets counter play on the queen side and White seems forced (if he gets too ambitious ) to take a draw by repetition.   For example - 

37.Ke3 Rb6 38.Rb1 

38...  Kg7 39.Kf4 Kh6 40.Rh1+ Kg7 41.bxc4 bxc4 42.Kg5 Rb2 43.Rb1 Rxc2 44.Rb7 Kf7 45.Rxd7+ Ke6 46.Rd6+ Kf7 47.Rxd5 Rxc3 48.Rd7+ Ke6 49.Rd6+ Kf7 50.Rd7+ Ke6 51.Rd6+ Kf7



White seems forced to draw here by repetition since Black is ready to clean up the pawns and queen his own pawn.

Keano,

Also, I have indeed covered the 33.fxe5 already.   Pay close attention to the posts above and you will find that line was already covered in detail.

Cheers, and there is nothing personal.  This is just a discussion.

Keano wrote on 03/04/14 at 09:56:47:



You say that as to infer we should be naive to believe White has not been using a comp to play the white side in this discussion.

What I have shown is the ideas.  Once you play the ideas out, like you would even from an opening book, you start remembering the ideas too.

White has been using a comp too, AND, it has been clear that White has had to defend many times, and yes, playing with a comp as white is "easy", just to make sure he does not get horribly tied down, and yet, in some lines, even with the help of a comp, he does get tied down, I have shown that already.

There has been nothing nowhere, not in all the lines I have challenged, where White ends up better, a computer evaluations is not precise, but I have shown that too.  In face I have seen that a lot while going over these lines.

I will check if I have not covered the fxe5 line already.

But so far all the doors keep closing on white, and you are running out of options.  But you keep believing white is better.  If White was truly better, the doors should be closing on Black at that rate, but not the other way around.

Keano wrote on 03/04/14 at 07:39:03:


I ran that end game.  I just did not provide the whole line of it.  White runs into a wall there too because the black rooks will infiltrate on the h file and on the c file.  The black king will also just blockade the pawn break.   

   

Did anyone mention the ... c6 followed by ...Nf6 idea ?   

Are you saying white keeps an edge after the recapture with the d-pawn now ?

Can you show it ?

The only one providing lines here is me.  You are mostly providing words.

What are you intending ?

if White takes with the d-pawn then 

33...   Bc6 

and now white has to deal with Black's d-pawn break or an advance on the queenside by Black, or Black invading on the h-file if White does not challenge  Black down the h-file.  White's bishop is even more limited in movement and does not seem able to do much now.

Handshake.  

I think I am done here.  It was a great discussion, Keano.  

Looking back through all the posts, I noticed no one brought up the line 

5...    c6  
6. Nge2   Nf6

Which is another great line in the 5... c6 variation.  Anyone has any thoughts on that ?

29.Ke2 c5 30.c3 g6 
31.Kd2  c4 

32.Bc2 This is your new proposal.   OK, here we go - 

32...   Nxe5 

33.fxe5 Rh7 
34.Rh1 Rxh1 
35.Rxh1 Re6 
36.b3 b5 

[Active play and Black seeking his on break on the queenside is key.]

37.Ke3 Rb6 38.a4 bxa4 39.bxc4 Rb2 40.Bd3 Be6 41.cxd5 Bxd5 42.Ra1 Ra2 43.Rg1 Ra3 44.g4 Rxc3 45.Kd2 Rb3 46.gxf5 a3 47.Bc2 Rb4 



[White is tied down by Black, who's pawn is perhaps more dangerous than White's.]

This was never a correspondence game.  Your opponent will never send you 10-18 moves and will not send 2-3 different variations just in case you go here or there.  He won't even show you where you should go.  This is a discussion.

Keano wrote on 03/03/14 at 09:48:20:



Black is not just holding.  White also has to play accurately, not just to try to be on top, Black's position is dynamic, and he can put white on the ropes quickly.

I will look. I have covered that line, but not with Bc2.  I will post shortly.

Also, we both know engines are used here, and in OTB, Black's position is like a spring which can, at any point, pop and the effect can be hard for White.  In OTB you will not have an engine like you do now, that is the case for both sides.  As is the case when engines are used, in a perfect game, black can hope to draw.  I am sure Black will not be playing vs a perfect game in OTB.  Keep that in mind.

I have shown and shut down the door on just anything you have thrown.  You are running out of more options as time goes on.  I can see the horizon effect already.