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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Marin: Winning against the Grunfeld (Read 16214 times)
ErictheRed
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Re: Marin: Winning against the Grunfeld
Reply #17 - 06/10/14 at 20:01:00
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PANFR wrote on 06/10/14 at 18:33:51:
I'm afraid I fail to see the appealing thing about white's position after 8...Qa5 9.Bd2 0-0 10.Be2 Bg4 11.0-0 Rd8.
Unless you're satisfied with a draw after 12.Rb1 cd4 13.cd4 Qxa2 14.Ra1 Qb2 15.Rb1 etc, I cannot find something to cheer about.
11...e6 is not bad either, IMO.


That's not the way I plan on continuing as White; I think I've found some new ideas and improvements over published theory (Avrukh, for instance), but at the moment I'll keep it to myself, especially as it's unrelated to Marin's DVD which is the subject of this thread.  Obviously I could be wrong, but at the moment I'm quite cheery about White's chances with 9.Bd2!?.
  
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PANFR
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Re: Marin: Winning against the Grunfeld
Reply #16 - 06/10/14 at 18:33:51
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I'm afraid I fail to see the appealing thing about white's position after 8...Qa5 9.Bd2 0-0 10.Be2 Bg4 11.0-0 Rd8.
Unless you're satisfied with a draw after 12.Rb1 cd4 13.cd4 Qxa2 14.Ra1 Qb2 15.Rb1 etc, I cannot find something to cheer about.
11...e6 is not bad either, IMO.
  
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ErictheRed
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Re: Marin: Winning against the Grunfeld
Reply #15 - 05/27/14 at 03:39:08
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I suspect that 7.Nf3 c5 8.Be3 Nc6 is just bad/dubious.  I also favor White rather strongly after 8...Qa5 9.Bd2!?, but objectively Black is probably fine.  It's too bad Marin doesn't offer some coverage of them.

What's the recommendation after 8...0-0 there?  I'm inclined to go 9.Be2, but I suspect he only covers 9.Qd2 and/or 9.Rc1.
« Last Edit: 05/27/14 at 13:59:18 by ErictheRed »  
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Re: Marin: Winning against the Grunfeld
Reply #14 - 05/23/14 at 01:40:37
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ErictheRed wrote on 05/21/14 at 21:16:54:
Does Marin analyze the line 7.Nf3 c5 8.Be3 Nc6 9.Rc1!?.  This is a line that I've become interested in for White lately, particularly 9...cxd4 10.cd Qa5+ 11.Bd2! which seems to compare favorably to the analagous lines in the 8.Rb1 Grunfeld.  Obviously there are a lot of deviations that Black can play, I'm just curious if this is part of Marin's recommended repertoire.

Edit: Also 8...Qa5 (which is the main line I guess) 9.Bd2!? is something I'm interested in. 



Marin doesn't mention either of those lines. Only 8...Qa5 and 8...0-0 are given as 8th move options for Black, and after 8...Qa5 only 9.Qd2.

This is odd, because 8...Nc6 looks like a very natural move for Black. However, after analyzing this line a bit, I like the 9.Rc1 idea very much.

1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nc3 d5 4.cxd4 Nxd5 5.e4 Nxc3 6.bxc3 Bg7 7.Nf3 c5 8.Be3 Nc6 10.Rc1 --

10...Qa5 11.d5 [played in 17 games on database.chessbase.com, compared to 635 for Qd2] Ne5 (11...Bxc3+?! 12.Rxc3 Qxc3+ 13.Bd2, and Fritz gives +/- 0.75) 12.Nxe5 Bxe5 and White develops easily, for example, 13.Qd2 0-0 14.Be2 b6 15.0-0 Rd8 16.f4

10...cxd4 11.cxd4 Qxa2 [+/= 0.6] and this is like the 8.Rb1 line, except with ...Nc6 instead of ...0-0 and White's bishop is on f1. 12.d5 Ne5 13.Nxe5 Bxe5 14.Bb5+ Bd7 and Black's king is uncomfortable in the center, e.g. Qe2 or Qg4!?

10...cxd4 11.cxd4 0-0 12.d5 -- Fritz gives +/= around 0.6. White completes development without having to sacrifice the pawn at a2.

10...0-0?! 11.d5 Ne5 12.Nxe5 Bxe5 13.f4 and big advantage to White (+/- 0.78)
  
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ErictheRed
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Re: Marin: Winning against the Grunfeld
Reply #13 - 05/21/14 at 21:16:54
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Does Marin analyze the line 7.Nf3 c5 8.Be3 Nc6 9.Rc1!?.  This is a line that I've become interested in for White lately, particularly 9...cxd4 10.cd Qa5+ 11.Bd2! which seems to compare favorably to the analagous lines in the 8.Rb1 Grunfeld.  Obviously there are a lot of deviations that Black can play, I'm just curious if this is part of Marin's recommended repertoire.

Edit: Also 8...Qa5 (which is the main line I guess) 9.Bd2!? is something I'm interested in.
« Last Edit: 05/22/14 at 14:16:48 by ErictheRed »  
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Re: Marin: Winning against the Grunfeld
Reply #12 - 05/21/14 at 19:01:15
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I've watched the first few videos of the DVD and I'm very impressed so far. I think the best part is that he's able to describe very clearly what's so annoying about the Grunfeld. It's that in most lines White can't maintain tension in the position and execute a long-term plan.

His recommended lines seem to address the problem adequately, but I was also happy that he discussed some lines that he tried and disregarded that attempt to solve the same problem. For example: 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nc3 d5 4.cxd5 Nxd5 5.e4 Nxc3 6.bxc3 Bg7 7.Bc4 c5 8.Ne2 Nc6 9.Be3 0-0 10.Rc1!? cxd4 11.cxd4 Qa5+ 12.Kf1 -- with ideas of a kingside attack with h2-h4-h5 and maintaining a strong center. It's an active plan, rather than just trying to reinforce White's center like it's inherently accomplishing something.
  
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Re: Marin: Winning against the Grunfeld
Reply #11 - 05/15/14 at 12:46:23
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Thanks to Chessbase's recent online sale I picked up Marin's dvd at last, and am quite pleased withh the purchase overall.

Marin's delivery here, while not ideal, is completely understandable. I would rate Marin as a better presenter than Ftacnik and Tiviakov - while those two are probably more fluent in English, they don't seem to be able to hold my attention.

Unlike many repertoire works Marin focuses quite abit on the moves he rejected - and that helped me remember why certain moves should be played.

There seems to be the occasional missing game (where is the Kramnik - Leko game that Marin keeps referring to?!) but so far nothing critical to the repertoire.

I think Marin's DVD makes a good complement to  Kornev's 1. d4 Vol. 2 book which also recommends the Be3 exchange lines. If you already have experience with Be3 exchange then Kornev's book is sufficient. Otherwise Marin's work is a good introduction.
  
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Re: Marin: Winning against the Grunfeld
Reply #10 - 05/07/14 at 15:37:06
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LHM1948 wrote on 05/06/14 at 14:55:21:
The Marin Fritz Trainer on the Gruenfeld is horrible. It goes over the same line 20 times.... I have to keep replaying the same sentence until I am so frustrated that I go back to Ftacnik.


Do you realize that Marin's DVD is a WHITE repertoire while Ftacnik's was aimed at the BLACK side?

OF COURSE the DVD repeatedly examines the "same line" beginning with:

1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nc3 d5 4.cxd Nxd5 5.e4 Nxc3 6.bxc3 Bg7

I think he does a very nice job of looking at alternative move orders for white including:

7. Nf3 c5 8. Be3
7. Be3 c5 8. Rc1
7. Be3 c5 8. Qd2

While I agree his annunciation is not as clear as native english speaking presenters (martin, davies, king, etc)... this is a trivial thing to criticize given the quality of the content.

For others who may be interested in the DVD: the analysis seems appropriate for the 1800-2200 crowd who have the patience to occasionally 'rewind' as needed since he does speak rather softly. The system as a whole seems more logical and easy to learn than many white responses I have dabbled with. It seems like a good choice for those who enjoy small end game advantages.
  
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lnn2
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Re: Marin: Winning against the Grunfeld
Reply #9 - 05/07/14 at 15:22:49
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The sample clip provided by chessbase didn't seem that bad. From the little I have seen he seems more watchable than say, Tiviakov (whose robotic delivery always puts me to sleep).
  
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Re: Marin: Winning against the Grunfeld
Reply #8 - 05/07/14 at 13:58:46
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I listened to some of Marin's Chessbase DVD on ideas in the Leningrad Dutch and was disappointed with his delivery.

I have greatly admired his books and articles, where the English is generally flawless, so I was a bit surprised and did find it a bit off-putting.
  
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Re: Marin: Winning against the Grunfeld
Reply #7 - 05/07/14 at 09:33:18
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I haven't seen the video, but I find these comments surprising, not only because Marin's works are generally very good, but also because I can personally vouch for the fact that he has an excellent command of the English language.
  
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Re: Marin: Winning against the Grunfeld
Reply #6 - 05/06/14 at 14:55:21
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The Marin Fritz Trainer on the Gruenfeld is horrible. It goes over the same line 20 times. I could live with that if he had any command of the English language. I simply cannot understand him. I have to keep replaying the same sentence until I am so frustrated that I go back to Ftacnik. Do NOT spend the money for this. It is a shame that a company like Chessbase cannot find someone who speaks English. Once again, this is HORRIBLE.
  
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Re: Marin: Winning against the Grunfeld
Reply #5 - 04/03/14 at 17:25:39
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IMJohnCox wrote on 04/02/14 at 17:32:59:
Not his first, I think


Indeed, not his first: http://shop.chessbase.com/en/products/marin_leningrad_dutch

Also interested in feedback on the GI one.
  
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Re: Marin: Winning against the Grunfeld
Reply #4 - 04/02/14 at 18:44:26
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Oh, sorry. The CD/DVD distinction eluded me.
  
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Pantu
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Re: Marin: Winning against the Grunfeld
Reply #3 - 04/02/14 at 18:32:43
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IMJohnCox wrote on 04/02/14 at 17:32:59:
Not his first, I think - didn't he do a Catalan one some while ago?

He did a 1.c4 e5 and a Catalan CD many years ago, but those were theory CDs with no video.  Much more meat in them too...
  
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Re: Marin: Winning against the Grunfeld
Reply #2 - 04/02/14 at 17:47:03
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FYI
You can click Marin's name at the chessbase link in the OP to see a list of his output for Chessbase.
  

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IMJohnCox
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Re: Marin: Winning against the Grunfeld
Reply #1 - 04/02/14 at 17:32:59
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Not his first, I think - didn't he do a Catalan one some while ago?
  
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Marin: Winning against the Grunfeld
04/02/14 at 16:08:27
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http://shop.chessbase.com/en/products/6695?ref=rf70-5oh0efn840

Just noticed this interesting dvd (probably Marin's first?). Any opinions on it are welcome!
  
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