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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Lalic 2014. Play the Accelerated Dragon (Read 90274 times)
brabo
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Re: Lalic 2014. Play the Accelerated Dragon
Reply #46 - 05/08/14 at 16:32:19
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ErictheRed wrote on 05/08/14 at 15:11:22:
Well, it's one thing to parrot back what a teacher says and another to REALLY understand it.  I remember my third-semester calculus class, many years ago now.  I sat in class every day and felt that I understood everything the teacher said, everything he did on the board, so I didn't really bother with homework...until I did terribly on the first exam! 

Clearly teachers have a large role, but you have to put in the time, effort, and thought yourself to really understand most complex things.  I like the idea of "coaches" as opposed to teachers, anyway, as the goal should not be to lecture directly, but to facilitate and guide the student to do whatever subject it is on his own.

I stated that it is perfectly possible to understand something by just listening or reading about a subject. The possibility of course depends on several factors: time, focus, intellectual capabilities, basics (e.g. knowing the rules of the game).

In fact Peter states that he didn't look to any books in advance but by looking to the megadatabase in advance of making the analysis he indirectly anyway did. People are copycats. Books copy what people play and people copy what books tell us.
« Last Edit: 05/08/14 at 18:33:18 by brabo »  
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ErictheRed
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Re: Lalic 2014. Play the Accelerated Dragon
Reply #45 - 05/08/14 at 15:11:22
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Well, it's one thing to parrot back what a teacher says and another to REALLY understand it.  I remember my third-semester calculus class, many years ago now.  I sat in class every day and felt that I understood everything the teacher said, everything he did on the board, so I didn't really bother with homework...until I did terribly on the first exam! 

Clearly teachers have a large role, but you have to put in the time, effort, and thought yourself to really understand most complex things.  I like the idea of "coaches" as opposed to teachers, anyway, as the goal should not be to lecture directly, but to facilitate and guide the student to do whatever subject it is on his own.
  
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brabo
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Re: Lalic 2014. Play the Accelerated Dragon
Reply #44 - 05/08/14 at 11:57:34
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Jupp53 wrote on 05/08/14 at 11:18:36:
Is it so?

You only understand really when you have worked about something.

I don't agree with that. It is perfectly possible to understand something by just listening or reading about it. If not then schools, teachers, coaches, books,... would make no sense.
In fact for most of us, learning from others is in most cases the quickest method to understand something instead of trying to find out everything oneself.
  
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Stefan Buecker
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Re: Lalic 2014. Play the Accelerated Dragon
Reply #43 - 05/08/14 at 11:53:02
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Clearly, these used books have pencil notes from former GM owners.
  
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TalJechin
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Re: Lalic 2014. Play the Accelerated Dragon
Reply #42 - 05/08/14 at 11:41:23
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Peter Lalic wrote on 05/07/14 at 22:16:30:
Well, only time and reviews will tell!
Generally chess books receive more reviews on Amazon.com, but apparently mine won't be released in America until June.


It seems to be out on .de and .co.uk parts of amazon.

Though I'm not sure what to make of "12 new from £9.53 2 used from £13.95" ?!
  
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Jupp53
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Re: Lalic 2014. Play the Accelerated Dragon
Reply #41 - 05/08/14 at 11:18:36
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brabo wrote on 05/07/14 at 18:47:25:
However the serious drawback is that often for more than 90% of the analysis you are just reinventing the wheel. That is a massive amount of time which one better spends on different analyses. There is always new stuff to analyze in a complex opening so the job is never finished.


Is it so?

You only understand really when you have worked about something. So the time may be spoiled if looking under the view of novelties. But the time is surely well invested in knowledge.

So it's two-edged at least.
  

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MartinC
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Re: Lalic 2014. Play the Accelerated Dragon
Reply #40 - 05/08/14 at 08:04:25
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Its definitely an interesting (and very brave!) way to do it Smiley Maybe relatively logical given the existence of the Greet starting book.
  
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Re: Lalic 2014. Play the Accelerated Dragon
Reply #39 - 05/07/14 at 23:06:14
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Peter Lalic wrote on 05/07/14 at 13:52:23:
Right from the start, I wanted to create a new repertoire. So I set up Mega Database and an engine, and tried to approach the opening from the point of view of my target audience (1600-2200). Basically, that meant assuming nothing, and starting from scratch.


That's an interesting approach and one that an independent researcher might adopt in the absence of guidance from theory books.

Some of the most intense discussions on this site are about positions in the Kings Gambit and the Blackmar, that rarely if ever arise in practical play.
  
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Peter Lalic
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Re: Lalic 2014. Play the Accelerated Dragon
Reply #38 - 05/07/14 at 22:16:30
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Well, only time and reviews will tell!
Generally chess books receive more reviews on Amazon.com, but apparently mine won't be released in America until June.
  
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TonyRo
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Re: Lalic 2014. Play the Accelerated Dragon
Reply #37 - 05/07/14 at 21:51:34
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It seems to me, that at least in theory, a combined approach certainly has it's merits. For instance, just using databases and your own analysis to lay out a proper tree of what you think is best maximizes creativity and limits bias. Checking what you've got against all other published analysis and with computers afterwards eliminates mistakes and error-proofs it to a certain degree. I've done this with a bunch of lines.

The downside to this approach is that sometimes revisions can be large!  Grin
  
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Re: Lalic 2014. Play the Accelerated Dragon
Reply #36 - 05/07/14 at 18:47:25
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Stefan Buecker wrote on 05/07/14 at 14:27:15:
Peter Lalic wrote on 05/07/14 at 13:52:23:
[...] I dared not to read any books on the subject. [...]

Wow. The stone age approach.

Not knowing any earlier published theoretical analyses, certainly improves the creativity and reduces the prejudices which often makes that one misses possible ameliorations.

However the serious drawback is that often for more than 90% of the analysis you are just reinventing the wheel. That is a massive amount of time which one better spends on different analyses. There is always new stuff to analyze in a complex opening so the job is never finished.

Personally I very much doubt the benefits of the "stone age approach" outweigh the disadvantages.
  
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Re: Lalic 2014. Play the Accelerated Dragon
Reply #35 - 05/07/14 at 18:07:50
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Man, I'm not sure whether to dish out insults or heaps of respect to Peter for typing the thing out. I probably typed out a very small fraction of one percent out of my 400 pages and each time I found it agonizing and error prone, especially with move numbers. Kudos!

Grin
  
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Pale Horse, Pale Rider
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Re: Lalic 2014. Play the Accelerated Dragon
Reply #34 - 05/07/14 at 16:02:49
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I've been playing the (hyper)accelerated dragon for almost 5 years now but lately got a bit tired of it. This thread renewed my interest so I decided to buy the book Smiley
  
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Peter Lalic
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Re: Lalic 2014. Play the Accelerated Dragon
Reply #33 - 05/07/14 at 15:27:40
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IM Andrew Greet wrote on 05/07/14 at 14:58:34:
I'm just a bit baffled by it, but there's no reason for you to justify yourself to me if you don't want to.)


I don't mind explaining my different approach, Andrew; the readers might find it interesting!

First of all, manually inputting each move forced me to make sure that everything was relevant to the reader. This way, I couldn't be tempted to do a "copy-and-paste-job" like a certain American author is infamous for doing! Basically, every single move counts.

Secondly, because I studied English linguistics, I have a propensity for pedantry. Since I was proof-reading for missing commas, etc., anyway, it didn't take much longer to fill in the occasional "check" or "capture" sign.

That brings me on to the final reason. I have obviously copied variations from ChessBase before (when writing Chess Monthly articles), and I found that I tended to write "around" the variations. I mean that the text seemed a bit disconnected from the moves. That is why this time I endeavoured to write full sentences, since the linguist in me was actually trying to write a book (as opposed to an Informator).

  
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IM Andrew Greet
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Re: Lalic 2014. Play the Accelerated Dragon
Reply #32 - 05/07/14 at 14:58:34
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Peter Lalic wrote on 05/07/14 at 14:24:44:
Don't worry, I suffered from serious perfectionism, so I've lost count of how many times I proof-read the book! That explains why I took so much time on it; I actually began with the Introduction back in early 2013, and finished by February 2014.


Well, if you've eliminated all errors, then it's all well and good. I'm still struggling to understand why you chose to do it this way in the first place; it must have taken an eternity to enter all the moves manually, not to mention the hours and hours of subsequent error-checking. You must've done the initial work in ChessBase, so why not just copy the moves straight from there and save yourself a massive amount of work and tedium? How you work is entirely your business of course, but I just can't see any possible upside to the way you've done it.

So the book was finished in February this year, but the Introduction was written back in April 2013. This would appear to be another example of your original approach, as the Introduction is normally the last thing the author will write before submitting the manuscript. I'm surprised that the editor didn't change the date, as readers will more than likely assume, as I did, that April 2013 was the date when the book was completed.

(Edit: just read the message back and I don't mean to give you a hard time about entering the moves manually - I'm just a bit baffled by it, but there's no reason for you to justify yourself to me if you don't want to.)
  
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