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Normal Topic Grünfeld Set-up against the London (Read 4837 times)
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Re: Grünfeld Set-up against the London
Reply #7 - 01/28/15 at 15:30:32
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Horse Badorties wrote on 05/12/14 at 13:59:25:
ErictheRed wrote on 05/12/14 at 13:26:32:
OP, your diagram is wrong, so I think I may be missing something.  Easier to just paste your lines using the PGN button, anyway.


You're right, my diagram was wrong, sorry.
Here's a PGN:



Thanks for looking into this.

P.S. Pardon my ignorance, but what does "OP" stand for?

Nice....!  Black is wacked!
I was aware of the idea I wasn't aware of the game.  Playing a Catalan with reverse colors isn't as easy as it appears against a London... I'm not really sure (for me) what has more bite. Playing a London against a Grunfled or the The main line c4 and Bf4 line...(I like both) IMO both have pluses. The London doesn't give black a target for to aim at... seems the whole Grunfled set up get's lost in the mix when there is no target to aim. In my London games... Black usually struggles to push e5 and when they finally do, they realize it was all for nothing.  Very similar in the main line c4 & Bf4 lines, but with more piece play less maneuvering.  IMO London is an excellent choice for a Grunfeld set (at least for me)
  
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Re: Grünfeld Set-up against the London
Reply #6 - 06/18/14 at 16:35:41
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TN wrote on 05/12/14 at 14:38:16:
Well, there's also h3 before Black gets in ...Nh5. Not that it would inspire me, but it's solid enough.


Authors of opening advocacy books are apt to overlook games or ideas that are good counters to their set ups. The idea that Black plays an early Nh5, met by Bg5 and then h6 and g5 is reasonably common and a mirror of similar ideas played on the other side of the board in the Bishop's Opening and Italian. Taking on d4 and playing Nf4 looks a good counter.

It's odd in a way, that Black's simple minded reverse Catalan approach of playing c5 and d5 isn't more popular, although in the game quoted, Black might have anticipated a London system and thus played in the order 1. .. g6 2. .. Bg7 3. ..c5 and only now 4. .. Nf6. This avoided a Barry Attack by provoking 4. c3
  
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Re: Grünfeld Set-up against the London
Reply #5 - 05/12/14 at 14:38:16
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Opening Poster.

Well, there's also h3 before Black gets in ...Nh5. Not that it would inspire me, but it's solid enough.
  

All our dreams come true if we have the courage to pursue them.
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Re: Grünfeld Set-up against the London
Reply #4 - 05/12/14 at 13:59:25
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ErictheRed wrote on 05/12/14 at 13:26:32:
OP, your diagram is wrong, so I think I may be missing something.  Easier to just paste your lines using the PGN button, anyway.


You're right, my diagram was wrong, sorry.
Here's a PGN:



Thanks for looking into this.

P.S. Pardon my ignorance, but what does "OP" stand for?
  
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Re: Grünfeld Set-up against the London
Reply #3 - 05/12/14 at 13:26:32
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OP, your diagram is wrong, so I think I may be missing something.  Easier to just paste your lines using the PGN button, anyway.
  
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Re: Grünfeld Set-up against the London
Reply #2 - 05/12/14 at 07:16:41
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TN wrote on 05/12/14 at 04:03:50:
White's best bet is probably to go for c4/Nc3 before Black gets in ...c5, to transpose to a main line Grunfeld. More adventurous players might transpose to a Barry Attack with 5.Nc3. Obviously Black's doing fine after both of these, but it's good to know the transpositions.


Thanks!

When I play the London I play it to avoid the main lines. Hence "transpose to a main line Grünfeld" is not exactly what I wanted to hear, come on! 
Smiley

I will look into the Barry Attack although I'd liked to find something more or less nicely playable for the London line as well. If not the Grünfeld set-up would in a way pretty much "refute" the London, or not?

Say it ain't so!  Tongue
  
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Re: Grünfeld Set-up against the London
Reply #1 - 05/12/14 at 04:03:50
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You're not missing anything - after 11...cxd4 12.cxd4, 12...Nf4 is a pretty obvious and good move. White should prefer 13.Bg3 but Black has the bishop pair practically for free after 13...Nxe2 14.Qxe2 Bf5 (OK, the bishop on g7 isn't a great piece, but neither are White's knights).

White's best bet is probably to go for c4/Nc3 before Black gets in ...c5, to transpose to a main line Grunfeld. More adventurous players might transpose to a Barry Attack with 5.Nc3. Obviously Black's doing fine after both of these, but it's good to know the transpositions.
  

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Grünfeld Set-up against the London
05/11/14 at 19:02:00
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Hi all,

in the following Grünfeld set-up main lines against the London
1.d4 d5 2.Bf4 Nf6 3.e3 g6 4.Nf3 Bg7 5.Be2 0-0 6.0-0 c5 7.c3 Nc6 8.Nbd2 Nh5 9.Bg5 h6 10.Bh4 g5 11.Ne1
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both Johnson ("Win with the London System") and Lakdawala ("Play the London system) only give 11...Nf6 after 11.Ne1. Lakdawala even gives 11.Ne1 an exclamation mark and writes "This is a clear improvement over 11 Bg3 Nxg3 12 hxg3" because "if Black refuses to back down, his situation is even more perilous: 11...Nf4? 12 exf4 gxh4 13 dxc5 Qc7 14 Ndf3 Qxf4 15 Qxd5 Rd8 16 Qc4 and Black doesn't have enough compensation for the pawn".

However there is the game Nalivaiko-Zubarev, Kharkiv 2005 with 11... cxd4 12. cxd4 Nf4 13. exf4 gxh4 and black went on to win the game. White's position after 11.Ne1 cxd4 12. cxd4 Nf4 13. exf4 gxh4 indeed looks quite ugly to me. I wonder why both Johnson and Lakdawala don't mention it and what their improvement suggestion might be.

What am I missing?

Thanks,
Torsten
  
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