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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Ragozin Repertoire trick to avoid QG Exchange (Read 37200 times)
FreeRepublic
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Re: Ragozin Repertoire trick to avoid QG Exchange
Reply #24 - 10/16/22 at 20:11:55
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GM Justin Tan, ChessPublishing April 2022, covers the game Bok, B. (2624) Abdusattorov, Nodirbek (2661) which commences:

1. d4 d5 2. c4 e6 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. cd5 ed5 5. Bg5 Bb4

I don't know if this is an accelerated Ragozin or an Exchange variation QGD, or both. The game and analysis are definitely worth a look by subscribers.
  
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Nernstian59
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Re: Ragozin Repertoire trick to avoid QG Exchange
Reply #23 - 12/31/21 at 02:32:21
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Cornette also recommends 6...c6, though he doesn't say anything about the avoiding the transposition to Botvinnik - Capablanca.  In fact, he said he had originally planned to go with 6...c5, heading right into the transposition.  However, he changed his mind because of the game Shankland - Sanikidze, Baku 2016 where Cornette found it difficult to find a good continuation for Black.  Although Shankland played very much in accordance to Botvinnik's plan, Cornette didn't seem to think Botvinnik - Capablanca was worth mentioning.  It's hard to believe he's not familiar with that game since he says he's played 6...c5 several times with good success.
  
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Re: Ragozin Repertoire trick to avoid QG Exchange
Reply #22 - 12/31/21 at 01:28:59
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MarinFan wrote on 01/18/17 at 23:09:02:
This move order is used in Pert's book on the ragozin. One idea for black is to play 6...c6 against the attempt by white to transpose to Botvinnik v Capablanca rubinstein lines.


Yes, indeed. Pert does not allow any transposition to Botvinnik-Capablanca. I don't have Cornette's book, but am confident that he does not allow a transposition either.

The Dangerous Weapons line on the Queen's Gambit Declined exchange variation is similar in spirit, but crucially differs in details. In both cases there are many lines, so it gets confusing. But this might illustrate:
DW:
1d4 d5 2c4 e6 3Nc3 Nf6 4cxd exd 5Bg5 Bb4
Accelerated Ragozin:
1d4 d5 2c4 e6 3Nc3 Bb4 4cxd exd. Now white can not play 5Bg5 as the black knight is not yet on the f6 square.

However 5Bf4 remains an interesting option. It resembles the Alortsev variation somewhat, but generally does not transpose.
  
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Re: Ragozin Repertoire trick to avoid QG Exchange
Reply #21 - 01/18/17 at 23:09:02
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This move order is used in Pert's book on the ragozin. One idea for black is to play 6...c6 against the attempt by white to tranpose to Botvinnik v Capablanca rubinstein lines.
  
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Re: Ragozin Repertoire trick to avoid QG Exchange
Reply #20 - 02/22/15 at 20:43:22
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I've looked at the Qa4 line, which I thought was supposed to be the refutation of Bb4, but Black seems fine. 

I have real problems against the Ragozin variation, so the transposition to the Nimzo lines mentioned above are definitely appealing.
  
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Re: Ragozin Repertoire trick to avoid QG Exchange
Reply #19 - 11/30/14 at 19:05:27
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Playing around with databases and engines after 9.Nge2:

9...h5 10.h4 Nxg3 11.Nxg3 gxh4 12.Nxh5 c6

...and Black's side of the game looks playable.

  
"Luck favours the prepared mind."  --Louis Pasteur
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Re: Ragozin Repertoire trick to avoid QG Exchange
Reply #18 - 11/28/14 at 06:58:55
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To clarify, I think you guys are discussing this position:



I have to admit that I think White is hugely better there, so I was wondering whether I had the position wrong.
  
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Re: Ragozin Repertoire trick to avoid QG Exchange
Reply #17 - 11/28/14 at 02:01:36
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I rather like the activity—and I think Black can make decent use of the queenside majority under the right circumstances. I'd need to bash out a bunch of variations and give the position more thought to reach a more deliberate conclusion. But, optically, I don't mind being Black here.
  
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Re: Ragozin Repertoire trick to avoid QG Exchange
Reply #16 - 11/27/14 at 21:38:46
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Probably just 10.a3. You have some activity but those kingside weaknesses aren't going away.
  
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Re: Ragozin Repertoire trick to avoid QG Exchange
Reply #15 - 11/27/14 at 21:23:49
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Hmm. I'd have to look at that a bit. What's wrong with 9...c5 in response? It looks as though White's development is compromised and Black has some time to activate pieces and fight for the centre.
  
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Re: Ragozin Repertoire trick to avoid QG Exchange
Reply #14 - 11/27/14 at 21:12:26
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9.Ne2 looks more testing. In general this move seems to be the antidote to the early ...Bb4.
  
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Re: Ragozin Repertoire trick to avoid QG Exchange
Reply #13 - 11/27/14 at 19:45:48
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ErictheRed wrote on 05/15/14 at 13:15:12:
I believe that there was a Dangerous Weapons or Secrets of Opening Surprises chapter devoted to 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.cd ed 5.Bg5 Bb4, which might interest you also.  Generally these lines have been thought of as better for White but within the bounds of playability.


Definitely within the bounds of playability. This is hardly the last word on anything, but it's a game I played a few years ago, inspired by the DW chapter. I have a hard time believing in 10.Bxb8, but that came straight out of the DW lines.



I'm not crazy about 3...Bb4, but I'm also less inclined to fear the Exchange either.
  
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Re: Ragozin Repertoire trick to avoid QG Exchange
Reply #12 - 05/16/14 at 21:12:29
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Aziridine wrote on 05/16/14 at 20:46:29:

Emms chose a strange moment to cut off his analysis of 14.Bb2: White won very quickly in Averbakh - Donchenko, Moscow 1970.


hmm ...Averbakh-Donchenko was cited as unclear after 19. f4 by ECO in the '90s, which also gave 19. Nf5 b3 unclear according to Kasparov.  But in the first (1970s) edition, Averbakh-Donchenko was given as ± after 19. f4 (the section was written by Botvinnik and Abramov).  14...c4 went from "?" in the '70s to "!" in the '90s ...
« Last Edit: 05/16/14 at 23:11:43 by kylemeister »  
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Re: Ragozin Repertoire trick to avoid QG Exchange
Reply #11 - 05/16/14 at 20:46:29
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kylemeister wrote on 05/16/14 at 19:22:37:

I notice that back in NCO Emms preferred 14. Ra2, and thought 14. Bb2 to be unclear (with Black pushing his queenside pawns and not his h-pawn).

Emms chose a strange moment to cut off his analysis of 14.Bb2: White won very quickly in Averbakh - Donchenko, Moscow 1970.
  
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Re: Ragozin Repertoire trick to avoid QG Exchange
Reply #10 - 05/16/14 at 19:22:37
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Aziridine wrote on 05/16/14 at 18:40:07:

That game featured a critical line, where I think 14.Ra2 (a la Botvinnik) is too slow - White needs to play 14.Bb2 to threaten 15.e4 immediately and provoke 14...c4. Emms's analysis of Volkov - Del Rio de Angelis, Vrachati 2011 on this site is quite illuminating.


I notice that back in NCO Emms preferred 14. Ra2, and thought 14. Bb2 to be unclear (with Black pushing his queenside pawns and not his h-pawn).
  
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